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Post by zanygame on Dec 31, 2023 10:16:37 GMT
Interesting alternative to heat pumps that avoid all the negatives associated with them. The military is shunning heat pumps and instead warming soldiers’ homes with cutting-edge electric boilers that cost less to run.Ministry of Defence (MoD) officials have been working on “Project Nixie” since 2020, The Telegraph can reveal, focusing on finding alternatives to heat pumps for barracks.One possible solution is by using Cylo boilers, which the Telegraph understands are currently being fitted in four homes at the Duke of Gloucester Barracks in South Cerney, Glos, as part of a pilot project due to start early in 2024.Cylo is a fridge-sized, emission-free electric boiler that is cheaper to run and more effective than a heat pump.It is also greener than a gas boiler and requires no major works to a building before it can be installed.Documents show that the MoD paid about £5,000 to install each of the four trial devices, similar to the cost of installing a traditional gas boiler.The device can be easily fitted to old buildings, with no work needed other than removing the old boiler and connecting it to pre-existing electrics and plumbing.It warms water as effectively as a gas boiler, its makers claim, is cheaper to run and can be used with variable tariffs.Cylo’s makers Remit Zero claim that the device can last for 40 years, while because it is a closed system it does not need to be opened for maintenance, and it makes no direct CO2 emissions because it does not use gas.Andy Slaney, the CEO of RemitZero, said that unlike heat pumps, Cylo boilers are quiet and easy to install for a standard plumber and can heat radiators to hot temperatures instead of only lukewarm.“There are some realities with heat pumps that are, I think, a bit of an inconvenient truth,” he said.“They are reasonably complex pieces of kit; they have a finite life; they require quite extensive maintenance; they require electricity when heat is required; their efficiency drops off when it’s cold.“You tend to need larger radiators and larger diameter pipe work and you need a more thermally qualified building so you can cope with a lower flow temperature.”Heat pumps, however, are unable to warm radiators as effectively, meaning measures to improve home energy efficiency are often needed, such as roof and wall insulation, new windows and doors and bigger radiators – costs that can run to tens of thousands of pounds for older houses.They are effectively night storage radiators. Heating water at night at low rate electricity. I thought you said night storage was useless? |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 31, 2023 11:30:40 GMT
If it stores energy until required then its a worthy replacement for night storage radiators - it will also solve the problem with heat pumps.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 31, 2023 12:31:38 GMT
That's proper big corruption. As I have been saying for a long time, China does not tolerate corruption and comes down hard on big time thieves and embezzlers.
In Britain these postmasters were all innocent, but the corrupt bastards put them in prison knowing this. The corrupt bastards have not been punished at all though.
I'm not sure they're all innocent but the amount of apparent fraud must have made it obvious to the PO that there was something wrong with their software - yet they prosecuted people individually and denied that there was a widescale problem, which is criminal or should be. I've been wondering what the fault was but haven't found anything about it online. My guess is that it's the old problem of using insecure protocols on transactions that debit/credit accounts. So glitches on the line can double debit accounts or not credit the account etc. It seems such a simple error but a lot of computer systems don't use secure protocols and rely on manual settlement later on. Yes it might have been that, but in my mind I imagined it as just shit software, written in such an abstract, convoluted and idiosyncratic way that it was just a mess. You know the classic one is a buffer overrun. That's like playing Russian roulette with your arrays and the like, as per non-repeating randomness, so hard to track down. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 31, 2023 14:01:33 GMT
Can't find any info on how Cylo boilers work as yet, other than they heat water at night and store it to use in your radiators during the day.
If any of you find data on:
Amounts of stored water needed to feed a central heating system for say 10 hours.
Temperature its stored at.
Is the water cycled and topped up with heat during the day or stored separately to be re-heated each night.
Other questions:
Could heat pumps be used alongside these to be even more efficient.
Are there better materials than water for storing heat.
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Post by zanygame on Dec 31, 2023 14:02:46 GMT
If it stores energy until required then its a worthy replacement for night storage radiators - it will also solve the problem with heat pumps. So have you changed your minds on night storage heaters? Wasn't it you who said they were crap? |
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Post by thomas on Dec 31, 2023 14:14:50 GMT
If it stores energy until required then its a worthy replacement for night storage radiators - it will also solve the problem with heat pumps. So have you changed your minds on night storage heaters? Wasn't it you who said they were crap? no idea, but I'm still none the wiser zany having read through this thread on how heat pumps are going to be universally taken up by ordinary Joe across the western world without massive subsidies and government help. Most families simply can't afford the cost , and for those who can , the sensible person is going to wait and investigate whether the technology is suitable and worth pumping hard earned cash into. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 31, 2023 14:36:52 GMT
So have you changed your minds on night storage heaters? Wasn't it you who said they were crap? no idea, but I'm still none the wiser zany having read through this thread on how heat pumps are going to be universally taken up by ordinary Joe across the western world without massive subsidies and government help. Most families simply can't afford the cost , and for those who can , the sensible person is going to wait and investigate whether the technology is suitable and worth pumping hard earned cash into. I expect most changes will come as boilers become old and need replacing. The technology behind heat pumps is very old, they are fridges in reverse. If you opened the doors on your fridge freezer and pushed the front through your back door, then the heat coming off the back of your fridge into your house is a heat pump. The problem is political. Warm air heat pumps work just fine, but they're not good at heating water up to 70 degrees for your radiators. But the government insist any grants must be for those type only. I think its because they want to appear to be doing something but want the take to be slow. Hence why France has 650,000 new systems and the UK only 42,000. This is what I think the vast majority of new heat pumps will look like over the next few decades.  ![]() |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 31, 2023 16:28:49 GMT
People will have to forced into buying heat pumps . Certainly for the next decade or two.
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Post by thomas on Dec 31, 2023 16:38:36 GMT
People will have to forced into buying heat pumps . Certainly for the next decade or two. I suspect that's the plan.....tax the alternatives into oblivion. Except eventually politicians need to face the angry electorate . Lassie down begging for food in the local supermarket won't be contemplating the climate crises or getting her knickers in a twist worrying about the middle and upper classes getting excited over their latest indulgent toys like heat pumps. Im interested in new technology , and of course making savings on the heating bills , but I don't think too many seem keen to come forward and become the heat pump guinea pigs simply for political reasons. I know it's off topic , but isn't electric vehicle sales dying down as reality bites? Im hearing loads of issues regarding them as well , not just online , but from friends and acquaintances that have bought or leased them. I suspect the new green technology has a long way to go for heating homes before people dive in at the deep end and spend thousands , if not tens of thousands of technology they are unsure of . Ive got gas heating , which runs not just radiators but wet underfloor heating , and I suspect we are talking a serious amount of money , which I don't have , to convert over to new green technology. Im pretty sure im not alone. |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 31, 2023 18:21:40 GMT
If it stores energy until required then its a worthy replacement for night storage radiators - it will also solve the problem with heat pumps. So have you changed your minds on night storage heaters? Wasn't it you who said they were crap? They radiate heat when they are being charged - this system seems to store extreme heat in the water boiler (which could be outside) and then distribute it to the radiators when needed. It seems (from the reports) that this is the closest we have seen to being able to use existing central heating which is what most people want. |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 31, 2023 18:24:47 GMT
no idea, but I'm still none the wiser zany having read through this thread on how heat pumps are going to be universally taken up by ordinary Joe across the western world without massive subsidies and government help. Most families simply can't afford the cost , and for those who can , the sensible person is going to wait and investigate whether the technology is suitable and worth pumping hard earned cash into. I expect most changes will come as boilers become old and need replacing. The technology behind heat pumps is very old, they are fridges in reverse. If you opened the doors on your fridge freezer and pushed the front through your back door, then the heat coming off the back of your fridge into your house is a heat pump. The problem is political. Warm air heat pumps work just fine, but they're not good at heating water up to 70 degrees for your radiators. But the government insist any grants must be for those type only. I think its because they want to appear to be doing something but want the take to be slow. Hence why France has 650,000 new systems and the UK only 42,000. This is what I think the vast majority of new heat pumps will look like over the next few decades. ![]() I have those as A/C units - they work OK but the noise gets pretty wearing and they suffer from exactly the same issue as any blown air heating, there is no residual heat when they are turned off. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 31, 2023 19:10:34 GMT
People will have to forced into buying heat pumps . Certainly for the next decade or two. Encouraged. But those of us who recognise global warming as a life changing issue are pleased. Thankfully that's the vast majority of scientists and educated people, who have finally been able to persuade the worlds governments of the critical situation we face. Those who recognise this are pleased and grateful that finally we are to do one thing for tomorrow instead of just greedy today. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 31, 2023 19:17:00 GMT
So have you changed your minds on night storage heaters? Wasn't it you who said they were crap? They radiate heat when they are being charged - this system seems to store extreme heat in the water boiler (which could be outside) and then distribute it to the radiators when needed. It seems (from the reports) that this is the closest we have seen to being able to use existing central heating which is what most people want. Well the heat can't be that extreme as water vaporises at 100c. If they use extreme heat maybe sodium (salt) would be better. But I think you are guessing as I can find no description of how they work. Oh, and they seem to be very expensive to, the military paid £5,000 for each test one installed. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 31, 2023 19:22:54 GMT
People will have to forced into buying heat pumps . Certainly for the next decade or two. Encouraged. But those of us who recognise global warming as a life changing issue are pleased. Thankfully that's the vast majority of scientists and educated people, who have finally been able to persuade the worlds governments of the critical situation we face. Those who recognise this are pleased and grateful that finally we are to do one thing for tomorrow instead of just greedy today. Forced. Increase the prices of gas boilers and gas enough to make it worthwhile . Gas boilers are far more responsive and comfortable than any heat pump . Oh and you are right , emotional,blackmail helps too. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 31, 2023 19:23:29 GMT
I expect most changes will come as boilers become old and need replacing. The technology behind heat pumps is very old, they are fridges in reverse. If you opened the doors on your fridge freezer and pushed the front through your back door, then the heat coming off the back of your fridge into your house is a heat pump. The problem is political. Warm air heat pumps work just fine, but they're not good at heating water up to 70 degrees for your radiators. But the government insist any grants must be for those type only. I think its because they want to appear to be doing something but want the take to be slow. Hence why France has 650,000 new systems and the UK only 42,000. This is what I think the vast majority of new heat pumps will look like over the next few decades. ![]() I have those as A/C units - they work OK but the noise gets pretty wearing and they suffer from exactly the same issue as any blown air heating, there is no residual heat when they are turned off. Don't know why yours are noisy, mine are silent, literally silent. They have no residual heat because they are a boiler and radiators. They're much better, rather than wasting energy making water very hot and then waiting for it to cool down. Instead they use just enough energy to make air at 22c and supply that constant temperature. No more fiddling around with rad stats trying to get each room the right temperature, turning the room stat in the one room up and down trying to get the kitchen warm without cooking those in the lounge. |
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