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Post by Orac on Dec 21, 2023 16:23:16 GMT
It's certainly a theoretical possibility. But there are (or will be) counters to even this. The strongest argument in favour of a presumption that aliens will have benign intentions is: we have benign intentions. We've been trying to contact alien life for a long time. We're not looking to destroy or exploit them. It is mostly intellectual curiosity. It could only ever be a presumption, though. Ours signals could be picked up by a scouting ship looking for resources. Still ... I think the balance of probabilities is that we can expect total indifference to our interests and values at best. I do have a rationale but it's not easy to put in a small, un-boring paragraph. The reason we bothered with tools is because we weren't happy just sitting in a cold cave and rolling the dice with the grim reaper every winter. It's that very same impulse that leads to conflict. We share it with all animals (certainly all carnivores). Rabbits will likely never develop tools so long as there is a strand of grass in front of them. It would never occur to them that they could 'get all the girls' by hogging all the grass in a structure and paying gaurds. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 21, 2023 16:31:18 GMT
The strongest argument in favour of a presumption that aliens will have benign intentions is: we have benign intentions. We've been trying to contact alien life for a long time. We're not looking to destroy or exploit them. It is mostly intellectual curiosity. It could only ever be a presumption, though. Ours signals could be picked up by a scouting ship looking for resources. Still ... I think the balance of probabilities is that we can expect total indifference to our interests and values at best. I do have a rationale but it's not easy to put in a small, un-boring paragraph. The reason we bothered with tools is because we weren't happy just sitting in a cold cave and rolling the dice with the grim reaper every winter. It's that very same impulse that leads to conflict. We share it with all animals (certainly all carnivores). Rabbits will likely never develop tools so long as there is a strand of grass in front of them. It would never occur to them that they could 'get all the girls' by hogging all the grass in a structure and paying gaurds. I think we bothered with tools because we discovered that tools aided the process of survival not only of oneself but of one's kin and the rest follows on. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 21, 2023 16:36:19 GMT
Humans have physical attributes that was vital do develop technology.
An intelligent whale with all the mental attributes possessed by humans would find it harder to progress than an intelligent ape with opposable thumbs.
I doubt that any intelligent life with the technology to reach us would have been much different from us at some point .
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Post by Orac on Dec 21, 2023 16:37:10 GMT
I think the balance of probabilities is that we can expect total indifference to our interests and values at best. I do have a rationale but it's not easy to put in a small, un-boring paragraph. The reason we bothered with tools is because we weren't happy just sitting in a cold cave and rolling the dice with the grim reaper every winter. It's that very same impulse that leads to conflict. We share it with all animals (certainly all carnivores). Rabbits will likely never develop tools so long as there is a strand of grass in front of them. It would never occur to them that they could 'get all the girls' by hogging all the grass in a structure and paying gaurds. I think we bothered with tools because we discovered that tools aided the process of survival not only of oneself but of one's kin and the rest follows on. ..and if killing off (or reducing) the neighboring tribe aids the process of survival? |
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Post by Orac on Dec 21, 2023 16:41:32 GMT
Humans have physical attributes that was vital do develop technology. An intelligent whale with all the mental attributes possessed by humans would find it harder to progress than an intelligent ape with opposable thumbs. I doubt that any intelligent life with the technology to reach us would have been much different from us at some point . I think they would likely be astonishingly similar to us - though not necessarily in the details of physiology. They could well experience shame, embarrassment, anger, happiness, discontent etc etc Take one of those things away from humans and they probably wouldn't have created complex societies |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 21, 2023 16:48:41 GMT
I think we bothered with tools because we discovered that tools aided the process of survival not only of oneself but of one's kin and the rest follows on. ..and if killing off (or reducing) the neighboring tribe aids the process of survival? Part of the process. It is the you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours dilemma. Do you help your neighbour hoping for similar help if you need it. It is why vampire bats that have been out and been successful regurgitate food for their neighbour who may not have been successful at all. A good deed for another is largely a good deed for oneself in the hope of reciprocation some day, it may come now with feelings of well being, but it is in essence a selfish act. Tribalism is of course a natural course to take as it means groups survive better than individuals even with all their petty squabbling and in fighting. We are probably hard wired to be tribal and some say intelligence increased from a need to do well in the tribe. |
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Post by Orac on Dec 21, 2023 17:05:32 GMT
..and if killing off (or reducing) the neighboring tribe aids the process of survival? Part of the process. It is the you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours dilemma. Do you help your neighbour hoping for similar help if you need it. It is why vampire bats that have been out and been successful regurgitate food for their neighbour who may not have been successful at all. A good deed for another is largely a good deed for oneself in the hope of reciprocation some day, it may come now with feelings of well being, but it is in essence a selfish act. Tribalism is of course a natural course to take as it means groups survive better than individuals even with all their petty squabbling and in fighting. We are probably hard wired to be tribal and some say intelligence increased from a need to do well in the tribe. Indeed. But it is a balancing act. How much you forgive, or how you value another's threat to you against their opportunity for you, is all in a judgment. Taking a co-operative and forgiving stance isn't always going to work out well for you. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 21, 2023 17:08:27 GMT
The only aliens causing me anxiety are the ones crossing the channel illegally.
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 21, 2023 17:36:38 GMT
The strongest argument in favour of a presumption that aliens will have benign intentions is: we have benign intentions. We've been trying to contact alien life for a long time. We're not looking to destroy or exploit them. It is mostly intellectual curiosity. It could only ever be a presumption, though. Ours signals could be picked up by a scouting ship looking for resources. Still ... I think the balance of probabilities is that we can expect total indifference to our interests and values at best. I do have a rationale but it's not easy to put in a small, un-boring paragraph. The reason we bothered with tools is because we weren't happy just sitting in a cold cave and rolling the dice with the grim reaper every winter. It's that very same impulse that leads to conflict. We share it with all animals (certainly all carnivores). Rabbits will likely never develop tools so long as there is a strand of grass in front of them. It would never occur to them that they could 'get all the girls' by hogging all the grass in a structure and paying gaurds. There has been one massive driver behind human violence throughout history: a scarcity of resources. There just hasn't been enough land, food, etc., to go round. Alien entities with the entire universe at their disposal are unlikely to suffer from a scarcity of resources. I don't see why violence should be expected in that case. That and the reason given by Srb above. |
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Post by sheepy on Dec 21, 2023 17:43:49 GMT
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Post by Montegriffo on Dec 21, 2023 17:44:00 GMT
Humans have physical attributes that was vital do develop technology. An intelligent whale with all the mental attributes possessed by humans would find it harder to progress than an intelligent ape with opposable thumbs. I doubt that any intelligent life with the technology to reach us would have been much different from us at some point . I think they would likely be astonishingly similar to us - though not necessarily in the details of physiology. They could well experience shame, embarrassment, anger, happiness, discontent etc etc Take one of those things away from humans and they probably wouldn't have created complex societies Would they have learned to juggle though? This is the big question no one is asking. |
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Post by sheepy on Dec 21, 2023 17:45:37 GMT
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Post by sheepy on Dec 21, 2023 17:55:01 GMT
Humans have physical attributes that was vital do develop technology. An intelligent whale with all the mental attributes possessed by humans would find it harder to progress than an intelligent ape with opposable thumbs. I doubt that any intelligent life with the technology to reach us would have been much different from us at some point . Well, the bad news is Bentley a lot of science doesn't agree, but instead think we should open your minds. For some reason. |
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Post by besoeker3 on Dec 21, 2023 18:03:14 GMT
So, have you seen any in real life? How would you know if you have seen one? when we already have AI that can create fake humans? My question was addressed to Dublifter. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 21, 2023 18:55:27 GMT
Humans have physical attributes that was vital do develop technology. An intelligent whale with all the mental attributes possessed by humans would find it harder to progress than an intelligent ape with opposable thumbs. I doubt that any intelligent life with the technology to reach us would have been much different from us at some point . Well, the bad news is Bentley a lot of science doesn't agree, but instead think we should open your minds. For some reason. What and where is this ‘ lot of science ‘ that believes an intelligent whale species could compete with an ape species from tool making to advanced technology? |
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