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Post by besoeker3 on Jan 27, 2024 10:26:59 GMT
This is a debating forum, not the US Military. Show us hard evidence. Are you pixilated? … 🥴 … I’ve already explained this is a digital medium … hard evidence cannot be dropped here. … only digital 0’s and 1’s bit data is possible thru a wire ….. …. I dropped you digital evidence here and on the other thread … but you ignored it … and didn’t engage … …. now scuttle away and troll another thread with your friend. Show us your hard evidence of aliens. I'm still waiting. |
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Post by sheepy on Jan 27, 2024 10:37:23 GMT
Are you pixilated? … 🥴 … I’ve already explained this is a digital medium … hard evidence cannot be dropped here. … only digital 0’s and 1’s bit data is possible thru a wire ….. …. I dropped you digital evidence here and on the other thread … but you ignored it … and didn’t engage … …. now scuttle away and troll another thread with your friend. Show us your hard evidence of aliens. I'm still waiting. I gave you the most convincing evidence yet, but it seems Dubs was rather confused and would rather run around in circles, I doubt you even really considered it. Rather you wrote it off as meaningless. |
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Post by Orac on Jan 27, 2024 10:42:41 GMT
The 'hardest' evidence that can be presented in a forum is a photograph or an eye-witness account from a reliable person.
Neither is really considered 'hard evidence' (photographs can be faked and people can lie), so the request for 'hard evidence' here is a bit silly.
The most that can happen here is an estimate of plausibility
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Post by besoeker3 on Jan 27, 2024 11:26:39 GMT
Show us your hard evidence of aliens. I'm still waiting. I gave you the most convincing evidence yet, but it seems Dubs was rather confused and would rather run around in circles, I doubt you even really considered it. Rather you wrote it off as meaningless. Did I  I offered him to present his evidence. He has declined to do so. |
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Post by dodgydave on Jan 28, 2024 0:53:56 GMT
There are some complex things going on.
You have "true believers" who only acknowledge "evidence" that confirms their belief. This is not just the conspiracy nut. This happens at every level so very plausible people can be true believers... ie like the billions of people with religious beliefs.
This is why the government / military insiders, or a random eyewitness, "believe" they witnessed something... rather than being able to present something more concrete. It is just level after level of true believers, reinforcing the belief... just like religion eg pope > bishop > priest > parishioner.
Now add to that the conspiracy mindset, which means that you cannot disprove the existence of aliens (or captured space ships), because the denial of their existence confirms the cover up!
Final, just to confuse matters, government do cover shit up... so maybe they do got them aliens lol.
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Post by Dubdrifter on Jan 28, 2024 12:44:27 GMT
The 'hardest' evidence that can be presented in a forum is a photograph or an eye-witness account from a reliable person. Neither is really considered 'hard evidence' (photographs can be faked and people can lie), so the request for 'hard evidence' here is a bit silly. The most that can happen here is an estimate of plausibility Well said … exactly what I was trying to communicate. There are some complex things going on. You have "true believers" who only acknowledge "evidence" that confirms their belief. This is not just the conspiracy nut. This happens at every level so very plausible people can be true believers... ie like the billions of people with religious beliefs. This is why the government / military insiders, or a random eyewitness, "believe" they witnessed something... rather than being able to present something more concrete. It is just level after level of true believers, reinforcing the belief... just like religion eg pope > bishop > priest > parishioner. Now add to that the conspiracy mindset, which means that you cannot disprove the existence of aliens (or captured space ships), because the denial of their existence confirms the cover up! Final, just to confuse matters, government do cover shit up... so maybe they do got them aliens lol. It can be argued that this is NOT a BELIEF system issue … but a “getting access to staggering secrets and an EVIDENCE sifting issue”. Breaking down that b. door. Transparency and Honesty. Religion and it’s Finances might want billions to believe Space Gods are just ethereal and unaccountable … and we should trust Deep State manipulating scientists and their belief Laws … on the flip side some fringe wacko UFO acolytes just want to switch to worshipping more nuts and bolts Space Gods that they think will be Earth’s SALVATION. Aliens have arguably/likely been hands off/secretive/wary of dangerous primitive human apes for millennia … that situation is unlikely to change … especially with U.S. nutters pushing WW3 and Star Wars since Reagan. Humans are breeding out of control … and more dangerous than ever under this Religious control. … I’m steering clear of both nutty Factions … and just attempting to gather as much convincing EVIDENCE as I can dig out … like many dedicated, more scientific, serious Ufologists/researchers/detectives have tried to do in this field quietly, patiently, dedicatedly … to get to the point we are now …. …. the cusp of an incredible collective HUMAN UNDERSTANDING … A break-out consciousness of how long we were duped … and how we peacefully moved forward from here … in an entirely NEW WORLD …no longer controlled by these malevolent Forces. All we have to do is accept this NEW CONSCIOUSNESS … this NEW REALITY …. and EVERYTHING CHANGES. We step into a whole new phase of Earth development where wars and all strife will dissolve away … because we are conscious where misdirection and these destructive elements are coming from. These bad people will do everything to deny it … cling to power … but the cat is out the bag and they are undone. The pressure exerted by the Disclosure Project … and what has historically trickled out through the Freedom of Information Act - (further disclosures giving proof of Cover -Ups) … shows that U.S. Deep State used the Cold War as an excuse to throttle ‘alien existence’ wherever a craft crashed or E.T. popped up publicly and said “Hi” loud enough to reach the thickest in Society. Who were the thickest? … not the general public … arguably just the sceptics and their scientist! - who refused to believe the Nazca lines were signalling to something other than grounded Humans unable to elevate themselves high enough to appreciate their wonderful symmetry … the ‘crop-circle communications’ of that era of alien visitation. 🤔 What could be needed as more evidence of real Space Gods? … especially hundreds of years before humans learnt to build machines to fly? … but a tattoo on the Earth’s surface only visible and appreciated for it’s artistry … from an incredible height over Peru. Even in an era of technology and jet engine flight … we struggle to create that level of artistry in our UK corn crops. We feel blessed they took the trouble to ‘paint on our Country’s canvas too ~ shared their Arecibo message … not that sceptics appreciated it … many of us in the UK did … and welcome further communication and enlightenment from advance intellects. As I’ve hinted … this has gone beyond BELIEF systems … The body of archaeology evidence and sworn expert witness testimony is enough proof for many analysts. |
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Post by besoeker3 on Jan 28, 2024 13:03:11 GMT
The 'hardest' evidence that can be presented in a forum is a photograph or an eye-witness account from a reliable person. Neither is really considered 'hard evidence' (photographs can be faked and people can lie), so the request for 'hard evidence' here is a bit silly. The most that can happen here is an estimate of plausibility Well said … exactly what I was trying to communicate. There are some complex things going on. You have "true believers" who only acknowledge "evidence" that confirms their belief. This is not just the conspiracy nut. This happens at every level so very plausible people can be true believers... ie like the billions of people with religious beliefs. This is why the government / military insiders, or a random eyewitness, "believe" they witnessed something... rather than being able to present something more concrete. It is just level after level of true believers, reinforcing the belief... just like religion eg pope > bishop > priest > parishioner. Now add to that the conspiracy mindset, which means that you cannot disprove the existence of aliens (or captured space ships), because the denial of their existence confirms the cover up! Final, just to confuse matters, government do cover shit up... so maybe they do got them aliens lol. It can be argued that this is NOT a BELIEF system issue … but a “getting access to staggering secrets and an EVIDENCE sifting issue”. Breaking down that b. door. Transparency and Honesty. Religion and it’s Finances might want billions to believe Space Gods are just ethereal and unaccountable … and we should trust Deep State manipulating scientists and their belief Laws … on the flip side some fringe wacko UFO acolytes just want to switch to worshipping more nuts and bolts Space Gods that they think will be Earth’s SALVATION. Aliens have arguably/likely been hands off/secretive/wary of dangerous primitive human apes for millennia … that situation is unlikely to change … especially with U.S. nutters pushing WW3 and Star Wars since Reagan. Humans are breeding out of control … and more dangerous than ever under this Religious control. … I’m steering clear of both nutty Factions … and just attempting to gather as much convincing EVIDENCE as I can dig out … like many dedicated, more scientific, serious Ufologists/researchers/detectives have tried to do in this field quietly, patiently, dedicatedly … to get to the point we are now …. …. the cusp of an incredible collective HUMAN UNDERSTANDING … A break-out consciousness of how long we were duped … and how we peacefully moved forward from here … in an entirely NEW WORLD …no longer controlled by these malevolent Forces. All we have to do is accept this NEW CONSCIOUSNESS … this NEW REALITY …. and EVERYTHING CHANGES. We step into a whole new phase of Earth development where wars and all strife will dissolve away … because we are conscious where misdirection and these destructive elements are coming from. These bad people will do everything to deny it … cling to power … but the cat is out the bag and they are undone. The pressure exerted by the Disclosure Project … and what has historically trickled out through the Freedom of Information Act - (further disclosures giving proof of Cover -Ups) … shows that U.S. Deep State used the Cold War as an excuse to throttle ‘alien existence’ wherever a craft crashed or E.T. popped up publicly and said “Hi” loud enough to reach the thickest in Society. Who were the thickest? … not the general public … arguably just the sceptics and their scientist! - who refused to believe the Nazca lines were signalling to something other than grounded Humans unable to elevate themselves high enough to appreciate their wonderful symmetry … the ‘crop-circle communications’ of that era of alien visitation. 🤔 What could be needed as more evidence of real Space Gods? … especially hundreds of years before humans learnt to build machines to fly? … but a tattoo on the Earth’s surface only visible and appreciated for it’s artistry … from an incredible height over Peru. Even in an era of technology and jet engine flight … we struggle to create that level of artistry in our UK corn crops. We feel blessed they took the trouble to ‘paint on our Country’s canvas too ~ shared their Arecibo message … not that sceptics appreciated it … many of us in the UK did … and welcome further communication and enlightenment from advance intellects. As I’ve hinted … this has gone beyond BELIEF systems … The body of archaeology evidence and sworn expert witness testimony is enough proof for many analysts. And you STILL have failed to provide hard evidence of aliens. Can't or won't ?? |
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Post by Orac on Jan 28, 2024 13:21:27 GMT
Besoeker,
The 'hardest' evidence that can be presented in a forum is a photograph or an eye-witness account from a reliable person.
Neither is really considered 'hard evidence' (photographs can be faked and people can lie), so the request for 'hard evidence' here is a bit silly.
The most that can happen here is an estimate of plausibility
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Post by Dubdrifter on Jan 28, 2024 13:35:59 GMT
When it comes to Belief … let’s hope we all remain FREE to make up our own minds … I should really not bully people here or ridicule them … they need to do their own investigations at their own speed before coming to a conclusion … and that should always remain fluid … and open to change!
The practice of science and evidence I guess? ….
Even when science presents experiments and evidence … some still question the INTERPRETATION of those experiments … and refuse to BELIEVE the hypothetical Theory.
To give an example … shockingly, I still don’t BELIEVE the Theory of Relativity … seriously question it’s validity. I’ve studied it a little … at a level way below most scientists/mathematicians today …
With my limited knowledge, I believe Einstein was wrong on Time elasticity … and led Science up the garden path and down a cul-de-sac for over a century.
Einstein convinced the World TIME was something that wasn’t a regular metronomic human construct … … imagined in the devices of ticking clocks … He claimed TIME became ‘elastic’ when we approached the speed of light … we know clocks are inaccurate at such velocities … and our most accurate atomic clocks are the most sensitive to the variegate Forces of the Universe … and thus most useless in proving this Theory.
For over 100 years scientists presented experiment after experiment to prove TIME is elastic … and has physical properties when tacked to Space-Time … many scientists today seriously discuss the possibility of going forwards or backwards in time … because of Einstein. Crazy eh?!
However, let’s stay open-minded(and still not suffer brain rot) …. Maybe future experiments will show ufo craft immune to heat/velocity/friction …. just dropping thru portals/wormholes into another multiverse dimension where space time doesn’t exist and you can tap in coordinates to pop back into the current physical Universe … wherever you choose? … or another Universe running along a different timeline where dinosaurs still roam the Earth … or humans have destroyed their planet through nuclear war.
Maybe the alien interrogation is REAL … and we as a species will eventually evolve into ‘alien greys’ through living underground in a toxic radioactive world for several thousand years?
Hmmm. Isn’t this the main reason to VOTE for OPEN Government, and hands on representative Democracy? … so WE can stop this happening in TODAY’s World?🤔
… so BELIEVE what you want … and keep accepting or rejecting which evidence you like or dislike … we are all doing that constantly … and it’s good to come to this space … and argue the toss.
Never be afraid of being a Majority of One … because YOU are the most important person that YOU need to convince🤔 … nobody else matters that much … or is worth the sweat and toil.😅😤
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Post by Orac on Jan 28, 2024 14:17:48 GMT
Lets go into full-on speculation mode
If the UFO phenomena turns out to be 'a real thing', my bet is that all these notions about travelers from distant stars are moot. It may be true that something or other has made such a journey or not.
Rather than being due to ships and travelers from distant societies, I think the phenomena would be far more likely an aspect of the kind of world that is implied by something like 'remote viewing' - ie a non (or hyper) physical dimension to reality itself. If the world really is like this, I can envisage a suitably high tech harnessing and controlling the extra dimension/s so that its machinery and technology isn't visibly to us in our world. The question 'are UFOS real?' would not be easily answerable - they would be part of this extended notion of reality.
One reason i have for this guess is that reports from people who see UFOS often have very strange (indeed ludicrous) aspects to them
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Post by Dogburger on Jan 28, 2024 15:45:58 GMT
Lets go into full-on speculation mode If the UFO phenomena turns out to be 'a real thing', my bet is that all these notions about travelers from distant stars are moot. It may be true that something or other has made such a journey or not. Rather than being due to ships and travelers from distant societies, I think the phenomena would be far more likely an aspect of the kind of world that is implied by something like 'remote viewing' - ie a non (or hyper) physical dimension to reality itself. If the world really is like this, I can envisage a suitably high tech harnessing and controlling the extra dimension/s so that its machinery and technology isn't visibly to us in our world. The question 'are UFOS real?' would not be easily answerable - they would be part of this extended notion of reality. One reason i have for this guess is that reports from people who see UFOS often have very strange (indeed ludicrous) aspects to them Thats why people dont say they see them when they do , people with closed minds call them strange or ludicrous  |
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Post by Orac on Jan 28, 2024 20:49:37 GMT
Here is an interesting one:
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Post by dodgydave on Jan 29, 2024 3:24:19 GMT
It can be argued that this is NOT a BELIEF system issue … but a “getting access to staggering secrets and an EVIDENCE sifting issue”. Breaking down that b. door. Transparency and Honesty. As I’ve hinted … this has gone beyond BELIEF systems … The body of archaeology evidence and sworn expert witness testimony is enough proof for many analysts. Think about this very carefully. Name ONE PERSON that could tell you that aliens have not visited earth and you would believe them, and therefore change your mind? |
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Post by Vinny on Jan 29, 2024 8:30:39 GMT
This is a debating forum.
Arguments require proof.
And the guy cannot provide proof.
He will not concede that he cannot provide proof and just spouts propaganda.
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Post by Orac on Jan 29, 2024 8:40:04 GMT
Vinny, I disagree with that.
Arguments don't need proof and someone need not concede if they don't have it. A lot of opinions are just a matter of judgment - an estimate based on experience and the 'balance of evidence'. For instance, a large part of a typical political position can rest on whether you find someone credible or not.
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