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Post by piglet on Dec 6, 2023 11:37:23 GMT
Im dipping in and out of it. What a cad, i wouldnt trust this fekker with a fiver, ducking, diving, lying, hes like the cad from tom browns schooldays. He fooled the whole country into thinking he had a brain, as slippery as it gets. He has harmed the country, they all do, but he more than most.
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Post by wapentake on Dec 6, 2023 17:46:23 GMT
Im dipping in and out of it. What a cad, i wouldnt trust this fekker with a fiver, ducking, diving, lying, hes like the cad from tom browns schooldays. He fooled the whole country into thinking he had a brain, as slippery as it gets. He has harmed the country, they all do, but he more than most. Tbh I don’t agree,all this he didn’t understand the science why should he ,he went in to politics not science and that’s why they have expert advisors. We could’ve done much worse,other countries did though I accept mistakes were made. |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 6, 2023 18:27:52 GMT
A pointless waste of money - until the basic question of did lockdowns do more harm than good is answered then all arguments about timing are moot.
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Post by Cartertonian on Dec 6, 2023 20:03:01 GMT
A pointless waste of money - until the basic question of did lockdowns do more harm than good is answered then all arguments about timing are moot. I guess that depends on how you define 'harm'. If 'harm' means more lives saved, then I'm with you. If 'harm' means more money saved, then I'm not.  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2023 20:56:11 GMT
Yes, Cartertonian, but excess deaths are currently running at 500 a week in the aftermath. A life saved in 2021 might now be 2 dying due to whatever is killing those excess deaths people.
It's a case of grim reaper swings and roundabouts.
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 6, 2023 22:11:17 GMT
A pointless waste of money - until the basic question of did lockdowns do more harm than good is answered then all arguments about timing are moot. I guess that depends on how you define 'harm'. If 'harm' means more lives saved, then I'm with you. If 'harm' means more money saved, then I'm not. well how about the mother of 4 who had her cancer treatment cancelled when the NHS became a Covid only service? With regards to your point about money - the richer the country the better the health service for its population. So as the lockdowns made us much poorer as a country did that harm future generations? |
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Post by jonksy on Dec 6, 2023 22:56:22 GMT
Yes, Cartertonian, but excess deaths are currently running at 500 a week in the aftermath. A life saved in 2021 might now be 2 dying due to whatever is killing those excess deaths people. It's a case of grim reaper swings and roundabouts. Pisssing around with chinese monky pox has put tens of thousands on the waiting list.
NHS waiting list to peak at more than 8 million by summer 2024
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Post by Cartertonian on Dec 7, 2023 7:49:15 GMT
I may be wrong, but I seem to recall you telling us that 'trickle-down' was a myth.
We're actually not a rich country, we're a country with a few very rich people in it. If we really were a rich country, we would have world class schools, healthcare, road and rail infrastructure, police and defence, etc, and there would be little need for welfare.
As to the healthcare issue, I agree with you to a point, but the motivation of most anti-lockdown folk was to protect their wealth, not preserve any lives.
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 7, 2023 10:07:07 GMT
I may be wrong, but I seem to recall you telling us that 'trickle-down' was a myth. We're actually not a rich country, we're a country with a few very rich people in it. If we really were a rich country, we would have world class schools, healthcare, road and rail infrastructure, police and defence, etc, and there would be little need for welfare. As to the healthcare issue, I agree with you to a point, but the motivation of most anti-lockdown folk was to protect their wealth, not preserve any lives. I never said we were a rich country - I said the richer a country is the better their health service. I don't understand your last point - everyone was getting handouts without any thought during the lockdowns, the rich we in receipt of the same largess as everyone else. Which is why we have now ended up with a population that is increasingly workshy. |
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Post by Cartertonian on Dec 7, 2023 10:33:10 GMT
Well apparently we're the 6th richest country on the planet. I think that's more about how wealth is measured. We're clearly 6th on the list of countries with the richest people in it...but that's demonstrably not having a positive effect on those of us who are not rich, whether that be in healthcare or the other areas that should define a rich country that I mentioned.
As to my last point, for clarity what I'm saying is that your original comment about 'more harm than good' and my questioning of it related to whether the harm was seen as harm to life, or to economic harm. I understand the two are linked, but I don't think the link is as simple as you infer. If, as you posit, 'the richer the country the better their health service' were true, the US would be world-leading. They're not, for a similar reason as to why we're not. Our 'riches' are the preserve of our rich and we are not, as you say, a rich country because those riches do not 'trickle down' those that need it.
I don't like to 'cross the streams'...but as in the 1922 Ctte thread, if there's a way that conservatism - or right-wing policies in general - could make us a truly 'rich' country, rather than merely advancing the interests of the rich, I'd be interested to hear it.
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 7, 2023 11:53:04 GMT
Well healthcare in the US is very good - OK it's expensive but it is world beating.
More harm than good means from a health perspective - yes the lockdowns may have given some old people a year or so of further life but at what cost?. This is the calculation that is not being made - all the people who had cancer treatment stopped, who were brought low by depression and by mental illness, who were forced to stay with violent partners etc etc. Those costs are ignored.
The ongoing costs from deliberately making the country poorer also need to be taken into account - a poorer nation cannot afford extra investment in healthcare, schooling, housing etc - all of which can adversely affect peoples lives.
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 7, 2023 14:56:53 GMT
Im dipping in and out of it. What a cad, i wouldnt trust this fekker with a fiver, ducking, diving, lying, hes like the cad from tom browns schooldays. He fooled the whole country into thinking he had a brain, as slippery as it gets. He has harmed the country, they all do, but he more than most. Johnson up before the beak, lol. Very good. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2023 6:10:18 GMT
Well healthcare in the US is very good - OK it's expensive but it is world beating. More harm than good means from a health perspective - yes the lockdowns may have given some old people a year or so of further life but at what cost?. This is the calculation that is not being made - all the people who had cancer treatment stopped, who were brought low by depression and by mental illness, who were forced to stay with violent partners etc etc. Those costs are ignored. The ongoing costs from deliberately making the country poorer also need to be taken into account - a poorer nation cannot afford extra investment in healthcare, schooling, housing etc - all of which can adversely affect peoples lives. Still going on about Brexit I see. |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 8, 2023 7:34:46 GMT
Well healthcare in the US is very good - OK it's expensive but it is world beating. More harm than good means from a health perspective - yes the lockdowns may have given some old people a year or so of further life but at what cost?. This is the calculation that is not being made - all the people who had cancer treatment stopped, who were brought low by depression and by mental illness, who were forced to stay with violent partners etc etc. Those costs are ignored. The ongoing costs from deliberately making the country poorer also need to be taken into account - a poorer nation cannot afford extra investment in healthcare, schooling, housing etc - all of which can adversely affect peoples lives. Still going on about Brexit I see. slow down the drinking it's making you incoherent. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2023 8:59:32 GMT
Still going on about Brexit I see. slow down the drinking it's making you incoherent. "The ongoing costs from deliberately making the country poorer also need to be taken into account" The only country in the world that has erected trade barriers on ourselves.🤣 |
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