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Post by seniorcitizen007 on Nov 21, 2023 2:48:02 GMT
Launched in 1955, Miltown rapidly became the first blockbuster psychotropic drug in American history, becoming popular in Hollywood and gaining fame for its seemingly miraculous effects. This drug was said to be non-addictive and to have no significant side effects. Soon it became apparent that it was addictive and did have significant side effects.
However, realising how much money could be made from psychiatric drugs, the psychiatric profession set about surveying the American population. In 1959 a survey of Manhattan found that over 80% of the population were suffering from neurotic or psychotic disorders into which they had no insight. In the 70s during Carter's Presidential campaign his wife stated that her primary concern was the "mental health of the American people". By the year 2000 the Surgeon General of the United States was saying that all mental illness was biological. President Bush proposed that all American citizens should be psychiatrically assessed: "To find out who needs help."
Here in the UK the use of psychiatric medication has more than doubled since 2005.
Recently a former President of the World Psychiatric Association said that the world would be better off if all psychiatric drugs were withdrawn.
Currently close to 9 million people in the UK are being prescribed antidepressants.
Psychiatric Imperialism: The Medicalisation of Modern Living
"Medicalisation diminishes the legitimacy of grief and discontent and therefore reduces the repertoire of acceptable human responses to events and denies people the opportunity to indulge their feelings".
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Post by piglet on Nov 21, 2023 11:46:07 GMT
I have worked in psychiatry at the sharp end for over thirty years. There was a big discussion in my local psychiatric hospital, Fulbourn, generations ago which resulted in a therapuetic community, no drugs were used. People with a psychosis deteriorated to the point of being unable to function in all ways, it failed.
Medication is nescessary to first get control of an illness to then be able to work with the patient in regards to recovery, medication controls the illness and the ensuing chaos.
Having said that medications have side effects, i suspect Miltown is Chlorpromazine, a dirty drug, being dirty means it has many side effects and over time can kill you. On the plus side, it WILL control your illness. Newer drugs have fewer side effects but do not have Chlorpromazines effectiveness in controlling psychosis, there is no winning. In psychosis, being medicated is a MUST.
As for anti depressants, they work, mostly. To treat one person with talking therapies is costly and time consuming, the NHS cant cope with that, talking is better than drugs obviously. Added problems are finding the right therapist, what is right for one is wrong for another, its about personalities. I needed a grief counsellor in my early 30s, luckily my therapist was like me, an intutive, she was guided by how she felt, and what was right.
She said nothing, next to nothing, i poured out my rage etc in six sessions ranting , someone witnessing my pain was enough, i cant thank her enough, i was fixed in six weeks. If i had someone rabbitting on it would not have worked. Nothing is black and white in treating mental illness, apart from in my opinion, medication for psychosis, chaos needs to be contained.
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Post by seniorcitizen007 on Nov 22, 2023 22:58:00 GMT
Grief is more than just what happens when someone dies. My uncle, who been working at the same job for 30 years, was made redundant. His wife and children were "excited" about the redundancy pay he would get. They could buy a new car, decorate the house, etc. "You'll easily get another job", they said. Just before Christmas he "lost it" ... smashed up the house, killed the family dog and had to be pulled off his wife by a neighbour who heard the ruckus. My uncle was a small man ... the neighbour was big and tough ... but he said he was "terrified" by my uncle's manic strength. A couple of weeks in hospital ... on meds ... and he was back to his normal "meak and mild" self.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2023 10:27:53 GMT
I have worked in psychiatry at the sharp end for over thirty years. ... Nothing is black and white in treating mental illness, apart from in my opinion, medication for psychosis, chaos needs to be contained. Would you agree that medication for mental illnesses is very much on a trial and error basis? Also that some medications have as a side-effect exactly what it is trying to treat - i.e. suicidal thoughts/actions? |
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Post by piglet on Nov 23, 2023 16:15:00 GMT
I think your alluding to some anti depressants, that have an opposite effect. I never came across a person commiting suicide because of an antidepressant, it must exist, but it is rare. You are correct about trial and error, that the amount or dosage, and the drug of choice can change. In regards to anti deprressants there are uncountable people alive now, that would not be, or leading a normal life, if it were not for them. On balance they are a big plus.
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Post by seniorcitizen007 on Dec 1, 2023 19:34:29 GMT
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Post by piglet on Dec 2, 2023 16:08:59 GMT
What point are you making? As said, if anti depressants were not used, what would your reaction be to mass suicides and depressive disorders that go unchecked? Is mass suicide and suffering better than a few? the number unknown. Your reasoning is a bit silly.
Its a bit like spending a million quid to save a pound, it is in that scale. The article is stupid., there is no alternative to chemicals. If people require counselling they have to pay for it themselves, the NHS cant cope with that even if it was run properly.
For every disorder, and there are many, you would need an army of trained therapists, all of it taking months maybe years. Depression is mostly about being too nice, lacking in assertiveness and internalising anger, bereavement, family dysfunction, and bad luck.
Are the NHS to provide family therapy? What is your perfect solution?
Is using anti depressants better than not using them?
Treating depression is about a person facing up to how they have failed, subconsciously they know it, even in bereavement. Especially in that, who wants to face up to that?
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 3, 2023 17:20:53 GMT
With 9 million people in the UK being prescribed antidepressants it is quite clear that they are being handed out like smarties.
I was chatting to a psychiatric professional the other day who told me that clinical depression is actually very rare and that many on antidepressants are simply not facing up to normal life issues. But then it's easier for a GP to simply chuck pills at someone than it is to offer sound life advice.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 3, 2023 18:02:58 GMT
I have worked in psychiatry at the sharp end for over thirty years. There was a big discussion in my local psychiatric hospital, Fulbourn, generations ago which resulted in a therapuetic community, no drugs were used. People with a psychosis deteriorated to the point of being unable to function in all ways, it failed. Medication is nescessary to first get control of an illness to then be able to work with the patient in regards to recovery, medication controls the illness and the ensuing chaos. Having said that medications have side effects, i suspect Miltown is Chlorpromazine, a dirty drug, being dirty means it has many side effects and over time can kill you. On the plus side, it WILL control your illness. Newer drugs have fewer side effects but do not have Chlorpromazines effectiveness in controlling psychosis, there is no winning. In psychosis, being medicated is a MUST. As for anti depressants, they work, mostly. To treat one person with talking therapies is costly and time consuming, the NHS cant cope with that, talking is better than drugs obviously. Added problems are finding the right therapist, what is right for one is wrong for another, its about personalities. I needed a grief counsellor in my early 30s, luckily my therapist was like me, an intutive, she was guided by how she felt, and what was right. She said nothing, next to nothing, i poured out my rage etc in six sessions ranting , someone witnessing my pain was enough, i cant thank her enough, i was fixed in six weeks. If i had someone rabbitting on it would not have worked. Nothing is black and white in treating mental illness, apart from in my opinion, medication for psychosis, chaos needs to be contained. Does it have something to do with when you administer an antidepressant which chemically alters your mood to be more positive about things, that over time the brain will learn to form more positive associations, e.g. say school to a depressed child and he may respond with all sorts of negative impressions as the brain has focused too much on that , but with any-depression the brain learns new positive associations. Else certain things mentioned might be triggers for a depressive mood. Then when the person gives up the drug the learned positive associations remain in memory. Anyway, that's how I understand it from somethingI was reading on the subject. |
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Post by Orac on Dec 4, 2023 9:33:42 GMT
A lot of the current depression / mood disorder problem is caused by bad diet (my opinion)
Low level malnutrition looks exactly like a mood disorder
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Post by piglet on Dec 4, 2023 11:33:52 GMT
Spot on Baron, im impressed, for all your wanderings in the field of knowledge youve hit on a corker. Your mind is a computer, that from birth and onwards you are having it programmed, by external influences and internal ones, yes internal, by your genes, you are born with propensities from previous lives, no, dont, dont go away.
Like a driver in a car, once you realise how the mind is influenced, you can choose what goes in, and yes, re- programme faulty programmes including depression, annxiety, intelligence, family relationships, work relationships, marriages etc. Yes you can. You can be an inmate of a concentration camp and be whistling dixie every morning, if you want too, you are separate from your brain, its called a soul.
The toughest bit is re- programming your genes, as you will have knee jerk reactions to events, but it can be done, firstly by doing nothing, not reacting, then reacting against your first impulse. But i get ahead of myself.
The soul, your connection to the Universe and all there is, is your subconscious mind, you are a bit of everything, the Universe created you, there is a bit of god in you, how can it not be so? Your life in the physical world is an oppurtunity to re- programme yourself, its easier in the physical, thats why life is so hard.
Its trying to change you for the better, from an animal to a higher being.
I could go on, there is much to be learned, all of it is life changing, the programme for change is in the bible, disguised, obtuse, but it is there, you can wish, no, demand, and it will be granted in time, if you use your mind correctly.
In the bible jesus or a disciple said, ask and it will be given.....depression is asking for depression, ask for happiness, wealth, a car, health, and it will be given. The Universe is like an aged grandparent, and you a three year old, hurting itself constantly, the Universe celebrates when you get it right, like a grandparent would.
There is much on how the subconscious mind works, i can recommend this book, its on amazon, its called The Essential Collection by Neville Goddard, its on amazon. A foreword is by Einstein, he says, " imagination is more important than knowledge.". What he means by imagination is how you think and feel. I had Mesenteric Venous Thrombosis, not any more.
If dreams were for sale what would you buy?, Beddows.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 4, 2023 16:35:21 GMT
A lot of the current depression / mood disorder problem is caused by bad diet (my opinion) Low level malnutrition looks exactly like a mood disorder Yes that might be a factor, but these days I suspect a major cause is lack of agency. We as humans were never designed to work in chain gangs. This is what a modern work environment is like. The idiots think more control = more conformity and better company results. When I worked as an employer I had the opposite approach. I never even bothered with a contract. The work arrangement was flexible. If the person really needed to take the day off he knew he only had to ask and I would oblige. Same if he needed to finish early for some social arrangement he had. Because a day in my firm was like this it was totally relaxed and friendly, and the work was enjoyable. Customers picked up on this positive vibe and that made them more loyal to the firm. Customers like to see a firm treat their staff well since they are in effect employing them indirectly, so that led to more business.
One guy I had working for me finally got poached off me by someone offering him a job he could not refuse. He was very sad to leave. I don't know how he got on after that, but me thinks working for a poacher might not have been as stress free as the last job. Naturally here in Blighty the management is as stupid as it can get, but for anyone thinking of going into business, I highly recommend this approach. You'll end up with all the business of your competitors and eventually their staff as well - lol. |
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Post by piglet on Dec 4, 2023 22:25:30 GMT
Casting seed on barren ground, its why this world stinks.
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Post by piglet on Dec 5, 2023 11:08:06 GMT
On Baron ground.
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