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Post by dappy on Nov 18, 2023 21:00:22 GMT
Almost right Squeezed but actually it makes no difference whether Alfred leaves his estate to his kids or to someone else.
So in the first example of an estate worth £800k, Alfred’s kids each inherit unearned income of £400k each.
In the second example where Alfred was a millionaire with an estate of £1.2m , tax of 40% on the excess over £1m is due and hence 80k tax (about 7% of total estate) is payable leaving Charlotte and David an unearned income of £560k each.
Most people with that level of wealth own property and most were married. There are reliefs for those who have sold their homes fairly recently eg to move into a home.
Some people would argue that if money is available to cut a tax, a tax on dead millionaires is the priority above for example living poorer people struggling to feed their families. That is for all to judge for themselves.
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Post by Dogburger on Nov 18, 2023 21:32:58 GMT
Never mind the taxes ,start nicking shoplifters and BBQ'ing ribs on French beaches and the Tories might get my attention . Voting for them is always going to be a step too far though.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 18, 2023 21:50:36 GMT
Almost right Squeezed but actually it makes no difference whether Alfred leaves his estate to his kids or to someone else. So in the first example of an estate worth £800k, Alfred’s kids each inherit unearned income of £400k each. In the second example where Alfred was a millionaire with an estate of £1.2m , tax of 40% on the excess over £1m is due and hence 80k tax (about 7% of total estate) is payable leaving Charlotte and David an unearned income of £560k each. Yes I agree (it wasn't clear that the other £400k was in addition to rather than instead of - I read it as £800k both ways). But I'm not sure you're right about the children bit: According to HMRC, the additional "Family home" allowance only kicks in when the property is left to the children or grand children. Most people with that level of wealth own property and most were married. I don't doubt it but my question was what percentage of estates are comprised of such? Some people would argue that if money is available to cut a tax, a tax on dead millionaires is the priority above for example living poorer people struggling to feed their families. That is for all to judge for themselves. Again, I'd take issue with the dead millionaires bit: In these days of astronomic house prices, that inheritance may well make the difference to whether Alfreds kids will be able to support themselves in older age or whether they'll end up as a burden to the state. But I think that we can agree that there's a lot to unpack with inheritance tax. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 18, 2023 22:23:49 GMT
It’s the Autumn Statement next week - more important these days than the budget in the Spring. No doubt the Chancellor will be hoping to con the gullible electorate with a round of pre election giveaways. But what should he prioritise this time around 1) cut inheritance tax - literally a tax for dead millionaires 2) increase tax thresholds - easiest way to help those most in need but lacking election impact? 3) spend the money instead on healthcare 4) nothing - stop borrowing so much 5) something else 5). something else. At some point we have to get growth back in the economy and that means that all these ridiculous populist 'windfall' taxes need to go so businesses start investing again. Until we get away from the politics of envy the economy (and thus the country) is fucked. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 18, 2023 22:31:31 GMT
It’s the Autumn Statement next week - more important these days than the budget in the Spring. No doubt the Chancellor will be hoping to con the gullible electorate with a round of pre election giveaways. But what should he prioritise this time around 1) cut inheritance tax - literally a tax for dead millionaires 2) increase tax thresholds - easiest way to help those most in need but lacking election impact? 3) spend the money instead on healthcare 4) nothing - stop borrowing so much 5) something else 5). something else. At some point we have to get growth back in the economy and that means that all these ridiculous populist 'windfall' taxes need to go so businesses start investing again. Until we get away from the politics of envy the economy (and thus the country) is fucked. A stable and growing economy then. That's what I and all the investors I know want far more than more tax breaks. |
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Post by dappy on Nov 18, 2023 22:31:54 GMT
Almost right Squeezed but actually it makes no difference whether Alfred leaves his estate to his kids or to someone else. So in the first example of an estate worth £800k, Alfred’s kids each inherit unearned income of £400k each. In the second example where Alfred was a millionaire with an estate of £1.2m , tax of 40% on the excess over £1m is due and hence 80k tax (about 7% of total estate) is payable leaving Charlotte and David an unearned income of £560k each. Yes I agree (it wasn't clear that the other £400k was in addition to rather than instead of - I read it as £800k both ways). But I'm not sure you're right about the children bit: According to HMRC, the additional "Family home" allowance only kicks in when the property is left to the children or grand children. Most people with that level of wealth own property and most were married. I don't doubt it but my question was what percentage of estates are comprised of such? Some people would argue that if money is available to cut a tax, a tax on dead millionaires is the priority above for example living poorer people struggling to feed their families. That is for all to judge for themselves. Again, I'd take issue with the dead millionaires bit: In these days of astronomic house prices, that inheritance may well make the difference to whether Alfreds kids will be able to support themselves in older age or whether they'll end up as a burden to the state. But I think that we can agree that there's a lot to unpack with inheritance tax. Actually you were right about the additional property allowance. Needs to go to kids or grandkids. Not sure why you are having problems with the dead millionaires bit. As we have seen in most cases to have to pay Inheritance Tax you have to be a millionaire and you have to be dead. It’s a bit of a stretch to suggest that Alfred’s kids are going to be thrown into penury as a result of the inheritance tax on his estate. In the first example Charlotte and David each inherited £400k with no tax paid. In the second example they inherited £560k after paying 40k each. If the Govt has cash available, it is an individual decision whether to spend it on debt reduction, sorting out our healthcare, tax bands to reduce tax paid by those on moderate incomes or on reducing the tax burden for dead millionaires. Personally the latter would be my last choice. Zany , now you understand IHT better, is that still your priority? |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 18, 2023 22:34:10 GMT
5). something else. At some point we have to get growth back in the economy and that means that all these ridiculous populist 'windfall' taxes need to go so businesses start investing again. Until we get away from the politics of envy the economy (and thus the country) is fucked. A stable and growing economy then. That's what I and all the investors I know want far more than more tax breaks. Yes but its a (very) forlorn hope. We have the current shower imposing excessive taxes on business and the other shower saying its not enough. It's hardly surprising we have seen no growth since the Financial crisis. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 18, 2023 22:35:50 GMT
Yes I agree (it wasn't clear that the other £400k was in addition to rather than instead of - I read it as £800k both ways). But I'm not sure you're right about the children bit: According to HMRC, the additional "Family home" allowance only kicks in when the property is left to the children or grand children. I don't doubt it but my question was what percentage of estates are comprised of such? Again, I'd take issue with the dead millionaires bit: In these days of astronomic house prices, that inheritance may well make the difference to whether Alfreds kids will be able to support themselves in older age or whether they'll end up as a burden to the state. But I think that we can agree that there's a lot to unpack with inheritance tax. Actually you were right about the additional property allowance. Needs to go to kids or grandkids. Not sure why you are having problems with the dead millionaires bit. As we have seen in most cases to have to pay Inheritance Tax you have to be a millionaire and you have to be dead. It’s a bit of a stretch to suggest that Alfred’s kids are going to be thrown into penury as a result of the inheritance tax on his estate. In the first example Charlotte and David each inherited £400k with no tax paid. In the second example they inherited £560k after paying 40k each. If the Govt has cash available, it is an individual decision whether to spend it on debt reduction, sorting out our healthcare, tax bands to reduce tax paid by those on moderate incomes or on reducing the tax burden for dead millionaires. Personally the latter would be my last choice. Zany , now you understand IHT better, is that still your priority? No, you are right Dappy its not what I thought it was. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 18, 2023 22:37:51 GMT
A stable and growing economy then. That's what I and all the investors I know want far more than more tax breaks. Yes but its a (very) forlorn hope. We have the current shower imposing excessive taxes on business and the other shower saying its not enough. It's hardly surprising we have seen no growth since the Financial crisis. Naah. Its Covid and the war in Ukraine shoving up the cost of everything so soon afterwards. |
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Post by dappy on Nov 18, 2023 22:41:32 GMT
Trouble is Zany that this shower of a Government are using emotion and general ignorance of the tax to sneak through yet another helping hand for the wealthy instead of focusing on those struggling with the cost of living.
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Post by borchester on Nov 18, 2023 22:42:05 GMT
Inheritance tax should be cut if not abolished. Our threshold is way below much of Europe, let alone the US and hasn't kept pace with inflation. As ever, it's a tax on the poor since the rich have numerous ways to avoid it. For most, inheritance is only payable on estates over £1m. Bit of a stretch to call it a tax on the poor. Inheritance tax starts at around £500,000 for property. And you can't get a cardboard box in London for much less than that.
So I want to see cuts in inheritance tax.
And less spending on the NHS. However much it is given it still wants more
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 18, 2023 22:45:29 GMT
Yes but its a (very) forlorn hope. We have the current shower imposing excessive taxes on business and the other shower saying its not enough. It's hardly surprising we have seen no growth since the Financial crisis. Naah. Its Covid and the war in Ukraine shoving up the cost of everything so soon afterwards. Don't be daft - a lack of investment goes way back before those issues. Until we get a business friendly government nothing will change. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 18, 2023 23:35:42 GMT
Trouble is Zany that this shower of a Government are using emotion and general ignorance of the tax to sneak through yet another helping hand for the wealthy instead of focusing on those struggling with the cost of living. No argument from me about this government and its not about them being Tory. Its about them being corrupt and shite. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 18, 2023 23:40:20 GMT
Naah. Its Covid and the war in Ukraine shoving up the cost of everything so soon afterwards. Don't be daft - a lack of investment goes way back before those issues. Until we get a business friendly government nothing will change. As I say stable growth is what investors want, not government incentives. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 19, 2023 7:42:25 GMT
Don't be daft - a lack of investment goes way back before those issues. Until we get a business friendly government nothing will change. As I say stable growth is what investors want, not government incentives. Growth had flatlined long before Covid and Ukraine - excessive taxes and regulation saw to that. |
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