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Post by see2 on Jan 27, 2024 0:38:45 GMT
Proving that many Conservative voters are really Right-wingers, i.e. not one country Conservatives. That is why there is so much denigration and insinuation, instead of political debate, that oozes out from Conservative supporters. Little fascists in disguise? I remember how those kinds of labels worked out for the Brexiteers. There was a real deluge from the remain camp to call Brexiteers bigots, racists, fascists and whatnot. Just count yourself lucky you are in a minority throwing your little labels about certain voters, if there was the same kind of deluge of attack about whom reform voters are this time, you'd probably be on the losing side of the vote again. Most of the provable lies and insinuations came from the Brexit side, sounds like you are proud of that. My main objection to Brexit before the referendum was that the UK had serious weaknesses in educational, financial, industrial and social. Which IMO needed strengthening Before leaving the EU. I asked a question, it seems you didn't like it. It is a fact that the further to the right our politics go, the closer to fascism we get. |
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Post by buccaneer on Jan 27, 2024 5:31:18 GMT
I remember how those kinds of labels worked out for the Brexiteers. There was a real deluge from the remain camp to call Brexiteers bigots, racists, fascists and whatnot. Just count yourself lucky you are in a minority throwing your little labels about certain voters, if there was the same kind of deluge of attack about whom reform voters are this time, you'd probably be on the losing side of the vote again. Most of the provable lies and insinuations came from the Brexit side, sounds like you are proud of that. My main objection to Brexit before the referendum was that the UK had serious weaknesses in educational, financial, industrial and social. Which IMO needed strengthening Before leaving the EU. I asked a question, it seems you didn't like it. It is a fact that the further to the right our politics go, the closer to fascism we get. Your so-called question was dependent on a gross, idiotic generalisation about Conservative voters. Suffice to say, that kind of labelling lost you the referendum. You still haven't learned your lesson from last time. You convince no one when you come up with broad-brushing a large part of the population with your stupid generalisations. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 27, 2024 7:58:29 GMT
I remember how those kinds of labels worked out for the Brexiteers. There was a real deluge from the remain camp to call Brexiteers bigots, racists, fascists and whatnot. Just count yourself lucky you are in a minority throwing your little labels about certain voters, if there was the same kind of deluge of attack about whom reform voters are this time, you'd probably be on the losing side of the vote again. Most of the provable lies and insinuations came from the Brexit side, sounds like you are proud of that. My main objection to Brexit before the referendum was that the UK had serious weaknesses in educational, financial, industrial and social. Which IMO needed strengthening Before leaving the EU.
I asked a question, it seems you didn't like it. It is a fact that the further to the right our politics go, the closer to fascism we get. If those weaknesses had not been solved after 4 decades of EU membership would waiting a bit longe have made a difference? |
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Post by see2 on Jan 27, 2024 9:23:23 GMT
Most of the provable lies and insinuations came from the Brexit side, sounds like you are proud of that. My main objection to Brexit before the referendum was that the UK had serious weaknesses in educational, financial, industrial and social. Which IMO needed strengthening Before leaving the EU. I asked a question, it seems you didn't like it. It is a fact that the further to the right our politics go, the closer to fascism we get. Your so-called question was dependent on a gross, idiotic generalisation about Conservative voters. Suffice to say, that kind of labelling lost you the referendum. You still haven't learned your lesson from last time. You convince no one when you come up with broad-brushing a large part of the population with your stupid generalisations. Wrong again. It was about SOME, and just those who are leaving the conservative fold and heading towards the Right of Conservatism, not all Conservative voters. With your lack of understanding of a straight forward post, I can understand why you voted for Brexit. |
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Post by see2 on Jan 27, 2024 9:30:03 GMT
Most of the provable lies and insinuations came from the Brexit side, sounds like you are proud of that. My main objection to Brexit before the referendum was that the UK had serious weaknesses in educational, financial, industrial and social. Which IMO needed strengthening Before leaving the EU.
I asked a question, it seems you didn't like it. It is a fact that the further to the right our politics go, the closer to fascism we get. If those weaknesses had not been solved after 4 decades of EU membership would waiting a bit longe have made a difference? You miss the obvious, nothing stopped the UK from fixing those problems, it was our own fault (giving Conservatives the domination of parliament didn't help) and nothing will change our underlying Conservative domination of parliament and the continuation of that political foolishness, just by leaving the EU. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jan 27, 2024 9:34:43 GMT
I remember how those kinds of labels worked out for the Brexiteers. There was a real deluge from the remain camp to call Brexiteers bigots, racists, fascists and whatnot. Just count yourself lucky you are in a minority throwing your little labels about certain voters, if there was the same kind of deluge of attack about whom reform voters are this time, you'd probably be on the losing side of the vote again. Most of the provable lies and insinuations came from the Brexit side, sounds like you are proud of that. My main objection to Brexit before the referendum was that the UK had serious weaknesses in educational, financial, industrial and social. Which IMO needed strengthening Before leaving the EU.I asked a question, it seems you didn't like it. It is a fact that the further to the right our politics go, the closer to fascism we get. They were the main reasons we had a referendum in the first place you silly old goat.
The UK were brainwashed in to believing if we weren't in the EU we wouldn't be able to survive, they were our saviours, and look now, we didn't need them then and we don't need them now, it's just fools like you still being brainwashed by the self serving remoaners, who are now crying because France wants to kick them out of their second home Chateaus, diddums then. ... or better still ...LOL
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Post by buccaneer on Jan 27, 2024 9:43:58 GMT
Your so-called question was dependent on a gross, idiotic generalisation about Conservative voters. Suffice to say, that kind of labelling lost you the referendum. You still haven't learned your lesson from last time. You convince no one when you come up with broad-brushing a large part of the population with your stupid generalisations. Wrong again. It was about SOME, and just those who are leaving the conservative fold and heading towards the Right of Conservatism, not all Conservative voters. With your lack of understanding of a straight forward post, I can understand why you voted for Brexit.There you go again with your pathetic little labels directed at Brexiteers. You do realise, people like you aided Brexit with their self-righteous, superiority complex? And you don't even know what you type now it seems and you have the audacity to tell me I have little understanding. Sorry, but you can't now shift the goalposts and add "some" to your pathetic generalisation when it wasn't there initially. Next time think before you infer "conservative supporters" to be fascists in disguise. |
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Post by see2 on Jan 27, 2024 10:20:52 GMT
Wrong again. It was about SOME, and just those who are leaving the conservative fold and heading towards the Right of Conservatism, not all Conservative voters. With your lack of understanding of a straight forward post, I can understand why you voted for Brexit.There you go again with your pathetic little labels directed at Brexiteers. You do realise, people like you aided Brexit with their self-righteous, superiority complex? And you don't even know what you type now it seems and you have the audacity to tell me I have little understanding. Sorry, but you can't now shift the goalposts and add "some" to your pathetic generalisation when it wasn't there initially. Next time think before you infer "conservative supporters" to be fascists in disguise. 1. That was not a label directed at those who voted for Brexit, it was a comment about you and your lack of understanding. 2. "some" wasn't there but "many" was, either way it only referred to those leaving the Tory fold and heading towards the right of politics.. so it was not a 'generalization'. |
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Post by witchfinder on Jan 27, 2024 11:09:01 GMT
I believe other posters have referred to Electoral Calculous, the website which provides a prediction based on all published polls by all the major polling organisations, and generally regarded as been the most accurate prediction available.
So according to Electoral Calculous, even if every intended vote for Reform instead went to the Conservatives, then Labour would still win a majority.
The last calculation was done on the 23rd December and comes out like this > CON 25.7 LAB 42.3 REF 9
If the 9% of Reform went to the Conservatives, it would give them 34.7 as opposed to Labours 42.3.
I reckon that the bottom line here is that Reform are simply splitting the Right Wing Vote and enabling Labour.
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 27, 2024 11:42:14 GMT
If those weaknesses had not been solved after 4 decades of EU membership would waiting a bit longe have made a difference? You miss the obvious, nothing stopped the UK from fixing those problems, it was our own fault (giving Conservatives the domination of parliament didn't help) and nothing will change our underlying Conservative domination of parliament and the continuation of that political foolishness, just by leaving the EU. So you are saying that staying in the EU would not have fixed those issues - so what would be the point of delaying leaving?..  |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jan 27, 2024 11:49:16 GMT
I believe other posters have referred to Electoral Calculous, the website which provides a prediction based on all published polls by all the major polling organisations, and generally regarded as been the most accurate prediction available. So according to Electoral Calculous, even if every intended vote for Reform instead went to the Conservatives, then Labour would still win a majority. The last calculation was done on the 23rd December and comes out like this > CON 25.7 LAB 42.3 REF 9 If the 9% of Reform went to the Conservatives, it would give them 34.7 as opposed to Labours 42.3. I reckon that the bottom line here is that Reform are simply splitting the Right Wing Vote and enabling Labour. If it was a hung parliament I think most of us would prefer Reform to make up the coalition, the Lib-dems are finished, just like the SNP, and I doubt there would be another DUP coalition. |
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Post by witchfinder on Jan 27, 2024 12:04:59 GMT
Ah yes, except that because of our voting system, Reform are starting from a position of having no seats, and therefore even with 9% of the intended vote [ according to Electoral Calculous ], they would still have no seats, yet they would have sucessfully taken votes away from the Conservatives.
If you are supportive of Reform, and therefore vote Reform, your gambling, and the end result will most likely be to allow Labour in.
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Post by Fairsociety on Jan 27, 2024 12:16:44 GMT
Ah yes, except that because of our voting system, Reform are starting from a position of having no seats, and therefore even with 9% of the intended vote [ according to Electoral Calculous ], they would still have no seats, yet they would have sucessfully taken votes away from the Conservatives. If you are supportive of Reform, and therefore vote Reform, your gambling, and the end result will most likely be to allow Labour in. Well the three mainstream political parties need a wake up call, they've become complacent, and basically it's always going to be a two horse race for leadership, the Tories or Labour, right now neither one represents what the British people want, in fact you can't split them apart.
We need new blood and Reform might just be that blood, Starmer thinking he can be the next Prime Minister just by saying and doing nothing is unthinkable, he hasn't got a policy to his name, he's been proven time and time again he flip flops from day-to-day on what he stands for, time for Labour and the Tories to get real, they are tone deaf to what the people are demanding.
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Post by sheepy on Jan 27, 2024 12:20:21 GMT
Ah yes, except that because of our voting system, Reform are starting from a position of having no seats, and therefore even with 9% of the intended vote [ according to Electoral Calculous ], they would still have no seats, yet they would have sucessfully taken votes away from the Conservatives. If you are supportive of Reform, and therefore vote Reform, your gambling, and the end result will most likely be to allow Labour in. Well the three mainstream political parties need a wake up call, they've become complacent, and basically it's always going to be a two horse race for leadership, the Tories or Labour, right now neither one represents what the British people want, in fact you can't split them apart.
We need new blood and Reform might just be that blood, Starmer thinking he can be the next Prime Minister just by saying and doing nothing is unthinkable, he hasn't got a policy to his name, he's been proven time and time again he flip flops from day-to-day on what he stands for, time for Labour and the Tories to get real, they are tone deaf to what the people are demanding.
I have heard all of this before, it stands on a belief there are only two political parties with a registered party for the disgruntled, it was proven utter hogwash at the last ever EU elections, one party took votes from them all and wiped the floor with the Westminster party. Are reform good enough to repeat it and have a close enough relationship with the electorate, I don't see it personally, I think most of them would rather ignore the lot of them. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 27, 2024 12:28:09 GMT
Ah yes, except that because of our voting system, Reform are starting from a position of having no seats, and therefore even with 9% of the intended vote [ according to Electoral Calculous ], they would still have no seats, yet they would have sucessfully taken votes away from the Conservatives. If you are supportive of Reform, and therefore vote Reform, your gambling, and the end result will most likely be to allow Labour in. The point is, a decent turnout for Reform UK will send a strong message to whoever wins the election that people have had enough of the status quo, they have had enough of centrist globalist pro immigration pro 'green' policies. People want a government who put this country first for a change. The only reason Cameron allowed that long overdue referendum was because UKIP were getting too popular, yet after just 5 years Reform are currently polling the same as UKIP were after 20 years. I'm a Tory voter, and I will be voting Reform. Welcome to the forum btw. |
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