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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 10, 2023 13:28:48 GMT
In a new paper published this week, Migration Watch considered what it would mean for infrastructure and other essential needs should net migration continue at 600,000 per year. Migration at such a rate will result in population growth of more than 15 million people by 2046, requiring six and half million more homes. 15 million people is about 15 cities the size of Birmingham. The paper considered the additional infrastructure that will be required. Here are some illustrative (actually, eye-popping) figures: • 6,675 schools • 2,640 GP Surgeries • 7,785 roads • 135 hospitals • 75 police stations • 75 universities The toll on communities and the countryside will be immense, with millions of acres concreted over. Full report link |
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Post by dodgydave on Nov 10, 2023 13:51:00 GMT
Net migration doesn't automatically mean the population is increasing. Many Western countries would actually have a declining population if it was not for immigrants... which is precisely why politicians turn a blind eye to it.
The real problem is unplanned immigration, because like you have stated, we need to build more infrastructure. That also quite complex. Not because of your incorrect position of "the country is full", because it clearly isn't, but because there is a massive shortfall between somebody moving here, and then paying enough tax to pay for public services. The estimates I have seen is that when you start paying tax at 16, you are about -£100,000 in funding the service you will need over a life time... if you move over here at 30/40 then the chances of being a positive contributor are far lower. Hence you will struggle to immigrate anywhere over 45 unless you have a ton of money in the bank.
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Post by Dogburger on Nov 10, 2023 17:20:42 GMT
Net migration doesn't automatically mean the population is increasing. Many Western countries would actually have a declining population if it was not for immigrants... which is precisely why politicians turn a blind eye to it. The real problem is unplanned immigration, because like you have stated, we need to build more infrastructure. That also quite complex. Not because of your incorrect position of "the country is full", because it clearly isn't, but because there is a massive shortfall between somebody moving here, and then paying enough tax to pay for public services. The estimates I have seen is that when you start paying tax at 16, you are about -£100,000 in funding the service you will need over a life time... if you move over here at 30/40 then the chances of being a positive contributor are far lower. Hence you will struggle to immigrate anywhere over 45 unless you have a ton of money in the bank. Maybe it would be better to have declining populations . AI can make up the shortfall in labour and the never ending catch up we play with our infrastructure would be a thing of the past . I'm not saying no immigration but we really do need to be more selective on the people we allow into the country . There is also a case of removing any recent arrivals who don't contribute |
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Post by dodgydave on Nov 12, 2023 23:47:15 GMT
Net migration doesn't automatically mean the population is increasing. Many Western countries would actually have a declining population if it was not for immigrants... which is precisely why politicians turn a blind eye to it. The real problem is unplanned immigration, because like you have stated, we need to build more infrastructure. That also quite complex. Not because of your incorrect position of "the country is full", because it clearly isn't, but because there is a massive shortfall between somebody moving here, and then paying enough tax to pay for public services. The estimates I have seen is that when you start paying tax at 16, you are about -£100,000 in funding the service you will need over a life time... if you move over here at 30/40 then the chances of being a positive contributor are far lower. Hence you will struggle to immigrate anywhere over 45 unless you have a ton of money in the bank. Maybe it would be better to have declining populations . AI can make up the shortfall in labour and the never ending catch up we play with our infrastructure would be a thing of the past . I'm not saying no immigration but we really do need to be more selective on the people we allow into the country . There is also a case of removing any recent arrivals who don't contribute So you don't want a retirement then? There is no "pot", pensions are funded by current workers... without enough current workers the entire system will collapse. Even with immigration, the Western World is about to experience dramatic population decline... big brains like Elon Musk have already said it will be a bigger problem than climate change. |
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Post by sheepy on Nov 12, 2023 23:54:55 GMT
Maybe it would be better to have declining populations . AI can make up the shortfall in labour and the never ending catch up we play with our infrastructure would be a thing of the past . I'm not saying no immigration but we really do need to be more selective on the people we allow into the country . There is also a case of removing any recent arrivals who don't contribute So you don't want a retirement then? There is no "pot", pensions are funded by current workers... without enough current workers the entire system will collapse. Even with immigration, the Western World is about to experience dramatic population decline... big brains like Elon Musk have already said it will be a bigger problem than climate change. Elon Musk knows full well as AI takes over, over population will be something it will have to deal with. Declining population will eventually be seen as the way forward. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 13, 2023 7:55:31 GMT
So you don't want a retirement then? There is no "pot", pensions are funded by current workers... without enough current workers the entire system will collapse. Even with immigration, the Western World is about to experience dramatic population decline... big brains like Elon Musk have already said it will be a bigger problem than climate change. Elon Musk knows full well as AI takes over, over population will be something it will have to deal with. Declining population will eventually be seen as the way forward. The thing is we have heard all these claims before. When computers, robotics and automation first came in it was all going to put millions out of work - in actuality we have more people in work than ever before. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Nov 13, 2023 8:31:08 GMT
Maybe it would be better to have declining populations . AI can make up the shortfall in labour and the never ending catch up we play with our infrastructure would be a thing of the past . I'm not saying no immigration but we really do need to be more selective on the people we allow into the country . There is also a case of removing any recent arrivals who don't contribute So you don't want a retirement then? There is no "pot", pensions are funded by current workers... without enough current workers the entire system will collapse. Even with immigration, the Western World is about to experience dramatic population decline... big brains like Elon Musk have already said it will be a bigger problem than climate change. So fund the state pension in a different way then. The current system is a giant Ponzi scheme of the kind that is illegal in every financial area other than government. And it's illegal because it's basically unsustainable. At some point it always goes bust. And the idea that our future pensions can be financed by cheap immigrant labour is financially illiterate. Most of these people are net beneficiaries of the state even when they're working. And Musk is NOT a big brain. He's an entrepreneur who takes big risks. He's gone bust in the past and he'll almost certainly go bust again. The model that Tesla works on is also unsustainable because he makes a loss on building the cars. Tesla is just about kept afloat by selling carbon credits to conventional car manufacturers (who DO make a profit). You don't have to be very bright to realise that, if production of conventional cars is stopped, these manufacturers won't need to buy carbon credits. Anyone who thinks Musk has anything intelligent to say about AI or climate change is a brick short of a load. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 13, 2023 8:49:50 GMT
The Migration Watch report only focuses on the effect on public services and infrastructure of '15 more Birminghams'.
They haven't included the cost of accommodating and sustaining this additional population.
Conservatively, around five million additional dwellings will be needed. Their food, around five million tonnes of it, will all need to be imported.
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Post by Dogburger on Nov 13, 2023 10:10:22 GMT
Maybe it would be better to have declining populations . AI can make up the shortfall in labour and the never ending catch up we play with our infrastructure would be a thing of the past . I'm not saying no immigration but we really do need to be more selective on the people we allow into the country . There is also a case of removing any recent arrivals who don't contribute So you don't want a retirement then? There is no "pot", pensions are funded by current workers... without enough current workers the entire system will collapse. Even with immigration, the Western World is about to experience dramatic population decline... big brains like Elon Musk have already said it will be a bigger problem than climate change. Others have already answered in some way to how I would . The system needs changing as its going to have to at sometime before everything goes pop! We are going to have to fund our own pensions and our own healthcare ,for those who go along with climate change and lower carbon stuff the main cause of this is population growth . Smaller population is the way forward , some would say its the only way forward . |
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