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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 5, 2023 18:32:57 GMT
Here is a thread about education. It is a subject that is seriously worrying me of late and I have a few different angles on it. I thought I'd start with History, but I'm also concerned with other aspects of it which I'll come to later.
We have many different channels by which we learn things and one that dominates these days is media, as per learning from a book or a magazine or a lecture/teacher. These are often providing all sorts of information which you can take on trust, but a certain way of knowing if the provider of the information is telling the truth is to learn about something you already know about. You can apply this in a kind of spot-check methodology, so if randomly selected topics pass as true, the chance of the rest being true is pretty high, and the converse is also applicable.
In the following example I have been looking at a topic I am completely familiar with. This is the 1980s and what was going on in the entertainment and arts of that era. It is now being taught to schools which are so foreign you would be hard-pressed to find anyone British in the class, except possibly the teacher. This means that the teacher is unlikely to get caught out by some smart kid checking with older adults they know to see if what they have learnt is accurate. If it were the 1880s then certainly they would not be able to do this.
OK so here is Exhibit A: a school lesson on the late 80s rave scene in Blighty, which I was involved with at the time. A close school friend of mine was a fellow promoter who knew all the guys personally at Sunrise, the very first large rave operator. In other words what I know did not come from any media, it came from being there. The following lesson has a lot of media clips drawn from the pool of media reports at the time. We have seen them before so are not really that interesting. What is interesting is the school teacher and how he rewrites what was going on. I'll give you some examples.
According to him it was inspired by Kraftwerk. Where he gets that idea from is just peculiar. He also comments on the American and America black influences. Yes this is true and many earlier raves played American import records. So we get a bit of truth mixed with a bit of fiction. From the horses mouth the truth was more along the lines that the mid 80s Brits electronic pop bands were so naff and so gay and commercial that along with the London clubs charging exorbitant rate of admission and costly drinks etc, that people were in a rebellious mood and wanted something a bit more edgy shall we say. You will also recall Britain was going through Thatcherism which extolled the virtues of the self-made successful businessman who starts up, opens shop and makes loads of money and lives life to the full. This was the generation of the media-hyped yuppie city kid with expensive suit. However here we have a business demand and a kind of methodology on how to fulfil that demand by exploiting the market - all basic business school stuff like. In other words it was the law of unintended consequences. The right were pushing free trade and the left were pushing gay and multiculturalism. The artistic goods from the left were rejected by the market and the market got what it wanted, which was excitement. Not only this but up until that time the music industry was controlled by the liked of EMI. It was a corporate oligopoly and hence uncompetitive. It was this stranglehold on the market that made the goods so naff, like a McDonald hamburger.
The teacher then goes on to say that the reason it happened in the first place like it did was due to the miner's strikes. This is the first time I have ever heard anyone say this and it is categorically untrue. The thesis is the social unrest, left-wing activism and the fight with Tory backed coal board was what led to the general air of anarchy. He also points out the chap who runs Guido Fawkes is a nasty Tory activist who likes to create as much chaos as possible and was one of the early pioneers of the rave scene. As one can see this theory has problems with it, in that in the same lesson he also says the scene began around the M25. the astute amongst us would note that there are not any coal mines on or near the M25! As for the Tory activist, well the Tories at the time were dead agaisnt the rave scene and made it a thing to campaign against it, portraying it as about as evil as Saddam Hussain.
But I think the biggest whopper of a lie was to say that this scene was on the one hand a good progressive advancement in the art of electronic music that paved the way for all that followed (true) with the statement that later on what spoilt it was that criminals started to get involved and were peddling drugs that brought the police attention, as if here we have this great new art form and the ugly menace of drugs destroyed it with the blight of criminality. He conveniently forget the reason it was first referred to as Acid House was simply because everyone was on LSD. The art form was very well understood to be wholly influenced by LSD as anyone who knows what LSD is would tell you! This misframing is a delve into fiction writing. There is other inaccuracy, e.g. the travellers absolutely hated Spiral Tribe. They were the least talented and most disrespectful of all rave operators and I think it came to almost being kicked off site, so hardly as he says the reason why travellers got into the rave culture.
In conclusion this teacher is telling these kids a fat load of porkies about us and our culture and he is doing it in a way so as to politicise it through his leftwing spectacles. It is however a valuable insight into the modern inner London ethnic classroom and the talk about the difference in that culture to the modern day I found interesting. One Muslim girl seems to put it quire succinctly : then the main thing the youth got into was music, but now it is all about social media "status". I found the word status an interesting point. It's true. the modern kid clamours for status, where the top goal is an A-list celeb. Very corporate eh? It seems lost on the teacher how really the rave scene was actually anti-corporate and truly capitalist. The definition I'm using here is a capitalist businessman provides you with what you desire. Ironically this produces diversity since every capitalist is a unique person with his own ideas how to satisfy that desire. Anyway, have a look yourself. You might want to skip some of the long video insert, some even without sound, but the classroom was interesting. NB Youtube has now changed its algorithm. If you want an ad-free experience you'll need an add-on called uBlock Origin.
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Post by Montegriffo on Nov 6, 2023 11:12:00 GMT
Surely the rave scene came out of the warehouse parties which were influenced by Hip Hop and sampling. I don't see a direct link to Kraftwerk other than they were electronic.
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Post by Orac on Nov 6, 2023 11:24:17 GMT
Warehouse wasn't hip hop, nor was sampling.
Acid house had a far stronger connection with something like Jean Micheal Jarre than hip hop - unless you count all vocal content as being 'influenced by hip hop'
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Post by Vinny on Nov 6, 2023 11:33:12 GMT
Welcome back Baron.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 6, 2023 12:05:38 GMT
Warehouse wasn't hip hop, nor was sampling. Acid house had a far stronger connection with something like Jean Micheal Jarre than hip hop - unless you count all vocal content as being 'influenced by hip hop' The Americans always try and claim they invented everything, like they ripped us off for the first mechanical flight which was in 1896 in Britain via a steam powered aeroplane. I'd say it certainly had an American influence in the early days, but it was more black soul music which was also popular in Britain. There was a bit of hip hop mixed in since these records were white label 12" imports.
It's important to note though that the Brits took these ideas and indeed developed their own style which was subsequently sold across the world and made billions in exports. So you had the very first acid house in 88-89 which was quite American with American vocals, but as soon as the M25 lot got going then the Brits created their own sounds and this departed from the original American /black sound.
Our crew did the first Ibiza in Portugal in 89. One of the people we knew was Brandon Block who took the idea and started up at a club called Space in Ibiza the following year. The real epicentre of it was West London but pretty soon the Spanish were getting turned on to it and so were the Porkers (Portuguese). I'd also like to mention the contribution of the Japs, and especially Roland. Their engineering was brilliant and it meant that normal folk could afford the equipment to make the new sounds. You'll see in the video the chap has some classic Roland creations. It was the art of analogue electronics. Every designer could create their own unique electronic sounds, but Rowland were the masters of the art.We gave the corporates a run for their money. They were to slow to recognise what was happening and only came in on the scene later, like 97 onwards, where the sound became commercial and degenerate.
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Post by Orac on Nov 6, 2023 12:27:48 GMT
Warehouse wasn't hip hop, nor was sampling. Acid house had a far stronger connection with something like Jean Micheal Jarre than hip hop - unless you count all vocal content as being 'influenced by hip hop' The Americans always try and claim they invented everything, like they ripped us off for the first mechanical flight which was in 1896 in Britain via a steam powered aeroplane. I'd say it certainly had an American influence in the early days, but it was more black soul music which was also popular in Britain. There was a bit of hip hop mixed in since these records were white label 12" imports. I think you could claim manifold influences on acid house - disco, electro, dub - but i think Soul really is a bit of a stretch. For the UK, the form appeared as a natural progression from the psychedelic electronic music scene which had been going on several years before explicit acid house appeared in the uk (89ish?). We may be making overlapping claims and misunderstanding each other. I don't think it's even an exaggeration to say that Acid House owes more to Hawkwind than Marvin Gaye
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 7, 2023 3:15:47 GMT
The Americans always try and claim they invented everything, like they ripped us off for the first mechanical flight which was in 1896 in Britain via a steam powered aeroplane. I'd say it certainly had an American influence in the early days, but it was more black soul music which was also popular in Britain. There was a bit of hip hop mixed in since these records were white label 12" imports. I think you could claim manifold influences on acid house - disco, electro, dub - but i think Soul really is a bit of a stretch. For the UK, the form appeared as a natural progression from the psychedelic electronic music scene which had been going on several years before explicit acid house appeared in the uk (89ish?). We may be making overlapping claims and misunderstanding each other. I don't think it's even an exaggeration to say that Acid House owes more to Hawkwind than Marvin Gaye I don't think you are thinking of the very early stuff. We were playing it in Portugal. There were some popular numbers that had female soul vocals. Some of it might have been sampled. After the first phase that was quite short-lived it then went into the 808 kind of sound, as per totally electronic instrumental and the vocals disappeared. After that phase came the Balearic beats as this was the Spanish influence. When the corporates took over the music went back to heavy use of female vocals and the art became bastardised. What you got was their usual trash but with a skin-deep rave style to it that was just there to sell the stuff. You see the corporates push the frontman/woman. It becomes a personality thing, not an artistic thing. In a way it turned full circle because the Early American stuff was somewhat affiliated with a commercial corporate sound. I have ot be frank here and say I was not that keen on it at the time. The Brits really made it into something great, no thanks to Americans. Germans also got into the act. Berlin became a major party zone. German stuff was pretty good artistically. They have Beethoven and Bach to back them up! By the way, do you recall Chicane. They were part of our crowd. Someone called Leo if I recall correctly. I went to a party of theirs.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 7, 2023 3:49:07 GMT
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 7, 2023 4:05:26 GMT
Surely the rave scene came out of the warehouse parties which were influenced by Hip Hop and sampling. I don't see a direct link to Kraftwerk other than they were electronic. Well I thought that Kraftwerk were part of the electo-pop thing you would get mid 80s which you would get bands like Depeche Mode and so on. They all had their differences but they were just too damn tame and lifeless. You'd be dancing with some woman with a handbag on a Saturday night in a crap club and listen to that.
We lads had been educated by British punk and the like. Punks would set their own gigs up and did not need record contracts. The idea of holding party in a huge warehouse was on that level of anarchy. The strange thing for me is around 86ish I really did think the best parties and stuff of the past were over and we would be consumed by yuppyism or something equally crass. It was something that came out of nowhere. My old school friend was running a night at some poly. I think it was Middlesex Poly or somewhere around there. He would have been one of the very first to run a rave club during this time. That went on for a good few years. He built up this mailing list. I don't think mailing lists were a thing back then, but that's how he managed to pack it out every week and got a couple of thousand fans.By the way, one DJ he hired out was Pete Tong before he became famous.
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Post by Montegriffo on Nov 7, 2023 11:21:56 GMT
Surely the rave scene came out of the warehouse parties which were influenced by Hip Hop and sampling. I don't see a direct link to Kraftwerk other than they were electronic. Well I thought that Kraftwerk were part of the electo-pop thing you would get mid 80s which you would get bands like Depeche Mode and so on. They all had their differences but they were just too damn tame and lifeless. You'd be dancing with some woman with a handbag on a Saturday night in a crap club and listen to that.
We lads had been educated by British punk and the like. Punks would set their own gigs up and did not need record contracts. The idea of holding party in a huge warehouse was on that level of anarchy. The strange thing for me is around 86ish I really did think the best parties and stuff of the past were over and we would be consumed by yuppyism or something equally crass. It was something that came out of nowhere. My old school friend was running a night at some poly. I think it was Middlesex Poly or somewhere around there. He would have been one of the very first to run a rave club during this time. That went on for a good few years. He built up this mailing list. I don't think mailing lists were a thing back then, but that's how he managed to pack it out every week and got a couple of thousand fans.By the way, one DJ he hired out was Pete Tong before he became famous.
I went to my first warehouse party in my second year at college so it would have been '83. Lots of fluorescent paint and UV lights in an old warehouse in Norwich. From what I remember it was mostly Hip Hop from the states. This was before ecstasy so it was mostly LSD being passed around. There were still new age travellers free festivals around that time and the two scenes seemed to merge into raves by the end of the '80s.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 7, 2023 14:17:05 GMT
Well I thought that Kraftwerk were part of the electo-pop thing you would get mid 80s which you would get bands like Depeche Mode and so on. They all had their differences but they were just too damn tame and lifeless. You'd be dancing with some woman with a handbag on a Saturday night in a crap club and listen to that.
We lads had been educated by British punk and the like. Punks would set their own gigs up and did not need record contracts. The idea of holding party in a huge warehouse was on that level of anarchy. The strange thing for me is around 86ish I really did think the best parties and stuff of the past were over and we would be consumed by yuppyism or something equally crass. It was something that came out of nowhere. My old school friend was running a night at some poly. I think it was Middlesex Poly or somewhere around there. He would have been one of the very first to run a rave club during this time. That went on for a good few years. He built up this mailing list. I don't think mailing lists were a thing back then, but that's how he managed to pack it out every week and got a couple of thousand fans.By the way, one DJ he hired out was Pete Tong before he became famous.
I went to my first warehouse party in my second year at college so it would have been '83. Lots of fluorescent paint and UV lights in an old warehouse in Norwich. From what I remember it was mostly Hip Hop from the states. This was before ecstasy so it was mostly LSD being passed around. There were still new age travellers free festivals around that time and the two scenes seemed to merge into raves by the end of the '80s. 83 was a long time before I saw any of that. I was in Manchester from 84 onwards and Manchester at that time had a combination of tacky trendy clubs or rock clubs. Our crowd used to hang out in a club that played 60s music and another one which had a kind of goth vibe to it. Hmm, I've never been to Norwich but used to know a girl who was from that way. It seems like it was way ahead of the curve.
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