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Post by patman post on Feb 3, 2024 15:54:45 GMT
Large storage batteries (power banks) can be topped up 24/7 and in turn they can be used to provide electric power when required — there are individual domestic systems already. Trials of larger installations have already used solar energy to charge community power banks that are fed and drawn on by customers as and when**. And community batteries are being trialled in the UK.*** Just as petrol stations are unlikely to have all pumps and charging points occupied for 24 hours every day, banks of EV-charging facilities, won't be in constant use — they might eventually have a "community battery" continuously on charge and augmenting the electrical energy drawn from the grid to power its EV chargers.
Such battery energy storage could become common even in the public network****
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Post by Orac on Feb 3, 2024 16:00:53 GMT
Given the history of ideologically motivated technical; transformations, the proposals to keep afloat will become increasingly ludicrous and unwieldy until if falls apart and people start dying in large numbers. It may even go on for a bit after that.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Feb 3, 2024 16:41:30 GMT
Large storage batteries (power banks) can be topped up 24/7 and in turn they can be used to provide electric power when required — there are individual domestic systems already. Trials of larger installations have already used solar energy to charge community power banks that are fed and drawn on by customers as and when**. And community batteries are being trialled in the UK.*** Just as petrol stations are unlikely to have all pumps and charging points occupied for 24 hours every day, banks of EV-charging facilities, won't be in constant use — they might eventually have a "community battery" continuously on charge and augmenting the electrical energy drawn from the grid to power its EV chargers.
Such battery energy storage could become common even in the public network****
I had a genius solution to this intermittent energy problem. It's so bloody simple I can't believe anyone has not thought of it. There are 40 million licensed cars in the UK. Now lets suppose when you park your car and leave it, you plug it in. At any one time there will be a the equivalent of a giant battery which if every car which was in use but not currently being driven say, 30 million times about 50kWh of capacity. That is a whopping amount of storage, so the idea is the cable keep the battery almost topped up, but in times of peak demand it takes a bit of energy from every battery plugged in, which would only be a small percentage if it is on that scale. Not only is this capacity free, but it is highly distributed, so gets power to where it is used, as per an intelligent grid network. |
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Post by patman post on Feb 3, 2024 19:15:10 GMT
There’s also the solution to energy storage by using capacitors — I vaguely recall a Toyota engineer mentioning that company’s work in the area…
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Feb 3, 2024 21:21:17 GMT
There’s also the solution to energy storage by using capacitors — I vaguely recall a Toyota engineer mentioning that company’s work in the area… Yes well they are very good for very high currents for short durations to iron out the sharp surges. The Japs proposed a super capacitor grid to charge cars. You dump the charge fast into the car and then the grid, which might have a lower power rating, will charge it up again at a slower rate. |
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 3, 2024 22:45:28 GMT
Large storage batteries (power banks) can be topped up 24/7 and in turn they can be used to provide electric power when required — there are individual domestic systems already. Trials of larger installations have already used solar energy to charge community power banks that are fed and drawn on by customers as and when**. And community batteries are being trialled in the UK.*** Just as petrol stations are unlikely to have all pumps and charging points occupied for 24 hours every day, banks of EV-charging facilities, won't be in constant use — they might eventually have a "community battery" continuously on charge and augmenting the electrical energy drawn from the grid to power its EV chargers. So each petrol station now has to have a large battery storage system installed? - is there no end to this bizarre spending spree that greens are on?. First we need a 12MW power supply and all the upgrades to the grid that entails and now they all need massive battery storage facilities.. saving the planet is going to bankrupt us.. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Feb 4, 2024 0:40:24 GMT
So each petrol station now has to have a large battery storage system installed? - is there no end to this bizarre spending spree that greens are on?. First we need a 12MW power supply and all the upgrades to the grid that entails and now they all need massive battery storage facilities.. saving the planet is going to bankrupt us.. Genuine lol, this is what worshippers of the green dream cant see. Yet. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Feb 4, 2024 2:24:33 GMT
So each petrol station now has to have a large battery storage system installed? - is there no end to this bizarre spending spree that greens are on?. First we need a 12MW power supply and all the upgrades to the grid that entails and now they all need massive battery storage facilities.. saving the planet is going to bankrupt us.. Genuine lol, this is what worshippers of the green dream cant see. Yet. You do it by gradual replacement of old with new. Traditional petrol stations come with huge tanks, which don't come cheap either, nor do the tanker lorries. It's the problem with controlling the market which makes us poor. Leave the market alone and everyone would buy what is best for them. In this case EVs are something which would make us richer, because you will always have some who find them better than standard cars. It's the manufacturers whose job it is to put things on the market that people would want to buy. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Feb 4, 2024 3:39:50 GMT
Genuine lol, this is what worshippers of the green dream cant see. Yet. You do it by gradual replacement of old with new. Traditional petrol stations come with huge tanks, which don't come cheap either, nor do the tanker lorries. It's the problem with controlling the market which makes us poor. Leave the market alone and everyone would buy what is best for them. In this case EVs are something which would make us richer, because you will always have some who find them better than standard cars. It's the manufacturers whose job it is to put things on the market that people would want to buy. BvL, you started well with 'gradual replacement', but it was downhill from there. You mention 'huge' tanks at petrol stations! Are you for real? The biggest forecourt fuel tanks are 100,000 litres, most are smaller but you dont know that because unlike huge wind turbines that do on occasion generate electricity as long as it's windy, but not too windy, you cant see underground fuel tanks. And while I'm here, have you any idea of the cost of wind turbines? This is something that for obvious reasons the massively subsidised industry try to keep out of the public domain. Yes wind is free, but turning wind into electricity is very expensive and there's no back up, electricity cant be stored. I will elaborate on your response... |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Feb 4, 2024 4:09:43 GMT
You do it by gradual replacement of old with new. Traditional petrol stations come with huge tanks, which don't come cheap either, nor do the tanker lorries. It's the problem with controlling the market which makes us poor. Leave the market alone and everyone would buy what is best for them. In this case EVs are something which would make us richer, because you will always have some who find them better than standard cars. It's the manufacturers whose job it is to put things on the market that people would want to buy. BvL, you started well with 'gradual replacement', but it was downhill from there. You mention 'huge' tanks at petrol stations! Are you for real? The biggest forecourt fuel tanks are 100,000 litres, most are smaller but you dont know that because unlike huge wind turbines that do on occasion generate electricity as long as it's windy, but not too windy, you cant see underground fuel tanks. And while I'm here, have you any idea of the cost of wind turbines? This is something that for obvious reasons the massively subsidised industry try to keep out of the public domain. Yes wind is free, but turning wind into electricity is very expensive and there's no back up, electricity cant be stored. I will elaborate on your response... Wind and solar are actually cheaper than standard fuel. What I encourage is people to find better solutions so the system keeps on improving. This country is a bunch of screaming babies and I see it as pathetic, just as I see the government ministers out of touch and away with the fairies. It is other countries who are making the progress in this green tech and they will make the money whilst our babies carry on screaming. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Feb 4, 2024 4:16:45 GMT
Wind and solar are actually cheaper than standard fuel. What I encourage is people to find better solutions so the system keeps on improving. This country is a bunch of screaming babies and I see it as pathetic, just as I see the government ministers out of touch and away with the fairies. It is other countries who are making the progress in this green tech and they will make the money whilst our babies carry on screaming. LOL, get a grip you muppet. Wind and solar generated electricity is fabulously expensive the only reason these industries exist is because they get massive subsidies. Need we go over old ground? |
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 4, 2024 7:39:42 GMT
Genuine lol, this is what worshippers of the green dream cant see. Yet. You do it by gradual replacement of old with new. Traditional petrol stations come with huge tanks, which don't come cheap either, nor do the tanker lorries. It's the problem with controlling the market which makes us poor. Leave the market alone and everyone would buy what is best for them. In this case EVs are something which would make us richer, because you will always have some who find them better than standard cars. It's the manufacturers whose job it is to put things on the market that people would want to buy. Er - that is the whole point. The market is not being left alone, we are being forced to buy cars that may not be best for us but simple what the Government dictates. |
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 4, 2024 7:41:15 GMT
BvL, you started well with 'gradual replacement', but it was downhill from there. You mention 'huge' tanks at petrol stations! Are you for real? The biggest forecourt fuel tanks are 100,000 litres, most are smaller but you dont know that because unlike huge wind turbines that do on occasion generate electricity as long as it's windy, but not too windy, you cant see underground fuel tanks. And while I'm here, have you any idea of the cost of wind turbines? This is something that for obvious reasons the massively subsidised industry try to keep out of the public domain. Yes wind is free, but turning wind into electricity is very expensive and there's no back up, electricity cant be stored. I will elaborate on your response... What I encourage is people to find better solutions so the system keeps on improving. This country is a bunch of screaming babies and I see it as pathetic, just as I see the government ministers out of touch and away with the fairies. It is other countries who are making the progress in this green tech and they will make the money whilst our babies carry on screaming. Which will be why wind and solar are massively subsidised and standard fuels are massively taxed..  |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Feb 4, 2024 12:37:37 GMT
You do it by gradual replacement of old with new. Traditional petrol stations come with huge tanks, which don't come cheap either, nor do the tanker lorries. It's the problem with controlling the market which makes us poor. Leave the market alone and everyone would buy what is best for them. In this case EVs are something which would make us richer, because you will always have some who find them better than standard cars. It's the manufacturers whose job it is to put things on the market that people would want to buy. Er - that is the whole point. The market is not being left alone, we are being forced to buy cars that may not be best for us but simple what the Government dictates.
Yes and you cant even vote for the government you want either. The bastards are all the same with the same agenda, which just happens to be agaisnt your interests. This is our problem, not that EVs don't work - they do.
Being forced to buy shit means there isn't any incentive to improve. Our car industry is all but finished.
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Post by steppenwolf on Feb 4, 2024 15:29:12 GMT
Large storage batteries (power banks) can be topped up 24/7 and in turn they can be used to provide electric power when required — there are individual domestic systems already. Trials of larger installations have already used solar energy to charge community power banks that are fed and drawn on by customers as and when**. And community batteries are being trialled in the UK.*** Just as petrol stations are unlikely to have all pumps and charging points occupied for 24 hours every day, banks of EV-charging facilities, won't be in constant use — they might eventually have a "community battery" continuously on charge and augmenting the electrical energy drawn from the grid to power its EV chargers.
Such battery energy storage could become common even in the public network****
There are 40 million licensed cars in the UK. Now lets suppose when you park your car and leave it, you plug it in. At any one time there will be a the equivalent of a giant battery which if every car which was in use but not currently being driven say, 30 million times about 50kWh of capacity. That is a whopping amount of storage, so the idea is the cable keep the battery almost topped up, but in times of peak demand it takes a bit of energy from every battery plugged in, which would only be a small percentage if it is on that scale. Not only is this capacity free, but it is highly distributed, so gets power to where it is used, as per an intelligent grid network. It's called V2G BvL and even the govt thought of that many years ago. I'm not sure everyone will like their car batteries being used to fill in for energy shortfalls of the grid but even if they did it will require massive updating of the Grid. And the problem with renewables is "Intermittency" as many people have said. But I don't know quite how often this problem has to be pointed out before the greens understand it. It CANNOT be relied on. And the other problem is that the cost of storing electricity in batteries is absolutely huge. To give you some small idea of how useless battery storage is, I have a small 4k solar array on my double garage. On an average summer day this will generate about 20kWh of energy - which isn't very much. But the cost of storing this small amount of energy is at least £10k. And it's bulky and heavy. The other problem, when you get into providing large backup for big charging stations is that you need a lot of room and you need cooling facilities. You can't just set up rows of batteries without plenty of ventilation and you need to get approval for this kind of thing because when they go up in flames they can't be put out and the toxic fumes are highly dangerous - so you need to be away from built up areas. None of this has been thought through. Yet if we adopted HFC it could be rolled out on the model of LPG which is used in many European countries. You could just convert petrol pumps over to hhdrogen as/and/when the number of HFC cars increased. There's no environmental damage (because of toxic rare metals) and no recycling problems. They're light and efficient and can be filled up in the same time as a petrol car. Also the hydrogen also serves as convenient and cheap way to store captured renewable energy. This is the way that Toyota thought it should be done - but the politicians knew better.. |
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