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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jan 27, 2024 17:48:45 GMT
You are wrong on the first bit and correct on the second bit. Transfer of heat is proportional to the temperature difference, so when t1 = t2 it does not take any energy at all. The other factors are the effect of the insulation and the surface area of the car. It's basic school physics for goodness sake. YT experts are not all they are cracked up to be sometimes. You can make a second order correction if you take into account the thermal capacity of the air in the car and so on, but this is only important for short journeys. Over long distances heat loss to the outside is your main problem. Keeping it in the garage would help. I’m right on both. A battery car doesn’t carry enough energy for a heater not to be significant draw . You can dress it up,how you like . If the cabin is cold ( hence you need the heater) the energy needed wouid be significant to keep it warm. Same as in hot climates but in reverse . You are now disagreeing with something that actually agrees with the second part of your reply. I was just giving you the mathematical relationship. It is linear on delta t. So the energy needed is on the difference in temperature and the heat capacity of everything in the car, which is also linear with deta t. In knowing this one can reduce energy by improving insulation. You could also warm it up prior to leaving when it is connected to the charger so it draws off the house mains. |
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Post by Bentley on Jan 27, 2024 17:54:17 GMT
I’m right on both. A battery car doesn’t carry enough energy for a heater not to be significant draw . You can dress it up,how you like . If the cabin is cold ( hence you need the heater) the energy needed wouid be significant to keep it warm. Same as in hot climates but in reverse . You are now disagreeing with something that actually agrees with the second part of your reply. I was just giving you the mathematical relationship. It is linear on delta t. So the energy needed is on the difference in temperature and the heat capacity of everything in the car, which is also linear with deta t. In knowing this one can reduce energy by improving insulation. You could also warm it up prior to leaving when it is connected to the charger so it draws of the house mains. You pointed out that if the inside and outside of the car are the same temperatures and those temperatures are ok then you don’t need a heater . No shit ! You advised keeping it in the garage ….ok Now you are advising warming it before you go. None of that refutes my post or makes it half wrong My post “No,it’s not. At the very least it means that driving with an EV with aheater on has a far more significant effect on range than ICE cars .” |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 27, 2024 18:16:06 GMT
Watched a vid on youtube yesterday with a guy reviewing a Kia EV in which he showed that if you put the heating fan on full blast it lowers the range by 10%. It was a tad chilly this morning and as I was driving along I wondered what the effect on range would have been had my car been an EV rather than a diesel - I had the heater on full, the front and rear heated screens on, the heated steering wheel on and all 4 heated seats..  The reduction in range is proportional to the difference between inside and outside temperature. Without specifying deta t the 10% claim is meaningless. Well I doubt you would bother putting the heating on if its 70f outside. But in the past week its been Zero or below so putting the heating on is a normal human reaction to prevent you from freezing your nuts off. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 27, 2024 18:17:14 GMT
I’m right on both. A battery car doesn’t carry enough energy for a heater not to be significant draw . You can dress it up,how you like . If the cabin is cold ( hence you need the heater) the energy needed wouid be significant to keep it warm. Same as in hot climates but in reverse . You are now disagreeing with something that actually agrees with the second part of your reply. I was just giving you the mathematical relationship. It is linear on delta t. So the energy needed is on the difference in temperature and the heat capacity of everything in the car, which is also linear with deta t. In knowing this one can reduce energy by improving insulation. You could also warm it up prior to leaving when it is connected to the charger so it draws off the house mains. How impractical is that - is the future based on the daft idea that everyone can keep their car plugged into the mains 24/7?. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 27, 2024 19:48:36 GMT
You are now disagreeing with something that actually agrees with the second part of your reply. I was just giving you the mathematical relationship. It is linear on delta t. So the energy needed is on the difference in temperature and the heat capacity of everything in the car, which is also linear with deta t. In knowing this one can reduce energy by improving insulation. You could also warm it up prior to leaving when it is connected to the charger so it draws off the house mains. How impractical is that - is the future based on the daft idea that everyone can keep their car plugged into the mains 24/7?. This is where smart meters and rationing comes into it... |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 27, 2024 22:23:26 GMT
How impractical is that - is the future based on the daft idea that everyone can keep their car plugged into the mains 24/7?. This is where smart meters and rationing comes into it... Tell that to the guy that lives on the 20th floor.. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 27, 2024 22:37:35 GMT
This is where smart meters and rationing comes into it... Tell that to the guy that lives on the 20th floor.. Are you alluding to EV charging? Lets assume. Your guy will have a communal charging point that he is charged for using, and heavily fined for overstaying. The queues for communal charging points is already concern for local authorities. Supermarkets have seen this comming and may offer discounts for shoppers who use their charging points, but it wont be nearly enough, and local authorities know it. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jan 27, 2024 23:00:11 GMT
You are now disagreeing with something that actually agrees with the second part of your reply. I was just giving you the mathematical relationship. It is linear on delta t. So the energy needed is on the difference in temperature and the heat capacity of everything in the car, which is also linear with deta t. In knowing this one can reduce energy by improving insulation. You could also warm it up prior to leaving when it is connected to the charger so it draws off the house mains. How impractical is that - is the future based on the daft idea that everyone can keep their car plugged into the mains 24/7?. Well if you had a garage then you would plug the charger in overnight. If you use it to drive to work each day then you know what time you leave, so you could set it to warm your car up 15m before you are due to set off. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 27, 2024 23:25:56 GMT
How impractical is that - is the future based on the daft idea that everyone can keep their car plugged into the mains 24/7?. Well if you had a garage then you would plug the charger in overnight. If you use it to drive to work each day then you know what time you leave, so you could set it to warm your car up 15m before you are due to set off. We have a garage that for some reason we never, or rarely use. If on a frosty morning I need to warm the very economical and efficient diesel engine that is good for a minimum of 250k miles, I start the engine then go indoors and have a cuppa. It's not a particularly arduous or complicated task. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 28, 2024 8:10:07 GMT
How impractical is that - is the future based on the daft idea that everyone can keep their car plugged into the mains 24/7?. Well if you had a garage then you would plug the charger in overnight. If you use it to drive to work each day then you know what time you leave, so you could set it to warm your car up 15m before you are due to set off. If you had a garage? - what about the people who do not have a garage?. The bloke who lives opposite me has no garage and no off street parking - so his only option to recharge his new Audi EV are public chargers and he cannot leave it plugged into them overnight. This is the reality for EV ownership - in some specific cases, for some specific lifestyles, they work very well. However for much of the community they are less convenient and practical than existing vehicles. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 28, 2024 10:52:37 GMT
Porsche CFO says Europe may delay its ICE ban
On the heels of unveiling the long-awaited all-electric Porsche Macan SUV, the company’s chief financial officer Lutz Meschke delivered what could be some dreary news, if it happens: He said that Europe’s plan to ban ICE vehicles by 2035 may get pushed back due to a slowing EV demand, reports Automotive News Europe.
“There’s a lot of discussions right now around the end of the combustion engine,” Meschke said yesterday at the launch of the Macan in Singapore. “I think it could be delayed. electrek.co/2024/01/26/porsche-cfo-says-europe-may-delay-its-ice-ban/
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Post by thomas on Jan 28, 2024 10:53:54 GMT
more bad news ..... Energy Bills Set to Soar as Report Finds Almost All Major Studies on Net Zero Grossly Underestimate Cost
Energy bills are set to soar as almost all major studies on Net Zero contain serious modelling errors that grossly underestimate the cost, a new report from Net Zero Watch reveals.
The report, which presents a new model of the 2050 electricity system that corrects these errors, shows that official studies have suppressed the apparent cost of Net Zero still further by using extreme speculations about the costs and efficiencies of all the equipment required in the 2050 grid.
According to Andrew Montford, the Director of Net Zero Watch:
The Royal Society, for example, assumes that the cost of almost everything will halve, and the efficiency of almost everything will soar. It’s not impossible, but it is imprudent to assume that it will happen.
If you correct the modelling errors, and use known costs and efficiencies rather than speculation about what might be available in 2050, you get a very different picture of the future.
The report warns that with current technology, the cost of a Net Zero grid would approach £8,000 per household per year. Montford adds:
The costs may come down somewhat, but policymakers need to be told what it would cost if they don’t. The numbers are staggering. The failure to explain the extreme nature of the underlying assumptions is culpable.
Net Zero Watch is calling for the Royal Society to withdraw its recent “misleading” report on electricity storage.
dailysceptic.org/2024/01/27/energy-bills-set-to-soar-as-report-finds-almost-all-major-studies-on-net-zero-grossly-underestimate-cost/ |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jan 28, 2024 11:42:03 GMT
Well if you had a garage then you would plug the charger in overnight. If you use it to drive to work each day then you know what time you leave, so you could set it to warm your car up 15m before you are due to set off. If you had a garage? - what about the people who do not have a garage?. The bloke who lives opposite me has no garage and no off street parking - so his only option to recharge his new Audi EV are public chargers and he cannot leave it plugged into them overnight. This is the reality for EV ownership - in some specific cases, for some specific lifestyles, they work very well. However for much of the community they are less convenient and practical than existing vehicles. Yes I understand that. The fuckwits who run Britain need to build garages. |
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Post by jonksy on Jan 28, 2024 11:45:28 GMT
If you had a garage? - what about the people who do not have a garage?. The bloke who lives opposite me has no garage and no off street parking - so his only option to recharge his new Audi EV are public chargers and he cannot leave it plugged into them overnight. This is the reality for EV ownership - in some specific cases, for some specific lifestyles, they work very well. However for much of the community they are less convenient and practical than existing vehicles. Yes I understand that. The fuckwits who run Britain need to build garages. What on the sidewalks or balconies BVL? |
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Post by walterpaisley on Jan 28, 2024 11:52:14 GMT
What on the sidewalks or balconies BVL? I don't have a garage - my charger is where I park up beyond the rear garden. Works out just fine. I also know people who must run their charging lead across a pavement outside their house. They use heavy duty rubber cable protectors to do so. They're becoming an increasingly common sight. |
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