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Post by steppenwolf on Nov 28, 2023 13:54:02 GMT
No. As usual you misunderstand. What he's said is that the embodied emissions of a new electric car typically rival the exhaust pipe emissions (of a petrol car) over its entire lifetime. That's why, in his book, he says that the most planet friendly car you can buy is an efficient petrol car. And that's before we get into all the massive CO2 emissions that will be caused by having to upgrade the National Grid and build charging points all over the country - and the pollution caused by tyre rubber. It also ignored tha problems with the early scrappage of BEVs because of degraded or potentially dangerous batteries. And the problems with the environmental damage caused by mining rare metals.
It's an environmental disaster Zany. And it's probably deliberate.
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Post by zanygame on Nov 28, 2023 14:04:38 GMT
No. As usual you misunderstand. What he's said is that the embodied emissions of a new electric car typically rival the exhaust pipe emissions (of a petrol car) over its entire lifetime. That's why, in his book, he says that the most planet friendly car you can buy is an efficient petrol car. And that's before we get into all the massive CO2 emissions that will be caused by having to upgrade the National Grid and build charging points all over the country - and the pollution caused by tyre rubber. It also ignored tha problems with the early scrappage of BEVs because of degraded or potentially dangerous batteries. And the problems with the environmental damage caused by mining rare metals. It's an environmental disaster Zany. And it's probably deliberate. Please quote him in that. Judging from the rest of what I read from him, he said nothing of the sort. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Nov 29, 2023 8:42:26 GMT
The basic facts are obvious. The CO2 emissions of a BEV occur mainly during manufacture of the battery. But these emissions are huge - about 18 tonnes for the battery of a Tesla for example. The manufacture of an average petrol car produces about 5 tonnes of CO2, and it'll produce about 20 tonnes of CO2 in its "lifetime". So, the CO2 emissions of BEVs are heavily front-loaded - i.e. they happen in the production of the car - while the CO2 emissions of a petrol car occur over its extended lifetime. How much CO2 a BEV emits is dependent on the energy mix in the production of electricity, which is variable.
Whether the BEV will produce less or more CO2 in its lifetime is dependent on how much CO2 is emitted in producing the electricity it uses and how long the car lasts. Both are unknown quantities at the moment but I'd suggest that things are not looking good for the longevity of BEVs. One thing is for sure though - BEVs are NOT the holy grail for cutting CO2 that the ecomentalists seem to think. In fact the immediate effect of any mass switch to BEVs will result in hugely increased CO2 emissions.
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Post by zanygame on Nov 29, 2023 10:39:44 GMT
The basic facts are obvious. The CO2 emissions of a BEV occur mainly during manufacture of the battery. But these emissions are huge - about 18 tonnes for the battery of a Tesla for example. The manufacture of an average petrol car produces about 5 tonnes of CO2, and it'll produce about 20 tonnes of CO2 in its "lifetime". So, the CO2 emissions of BEVs are heavily front-loaded - i.e. they happen in the production of the car - while the CO2 emissions of a petrol car occur over its extended lifetime. How much CO2 a BEV emits is dependent on the energy mix in the production of electricity, which is variable. Whether the BEV will produce less or more CO2 in its lifetime is dependent on how much CO2 is emitted in producing the electricity it uses and how long the car lasts. Both are unknown quantities at the moment but I'd suggest that things are not looking good for the longevity of BEVs. One thing is for sure though - BEVs are NOT the holy grail for cutting CO2 that the ecomentalists seem to think. In fact the immediate effect of any mass switch to BEVs will result in hugely increased CO2 emissions. If the basic facts are so obvious quote where Mike Berners Lee states it. Your assumptions that the electricity may be produced by burning fossil fuels are poor assumptions. Most cars will be charged over night using spare wind energy. Renewable energy overtook fossil energy last year and will continue to grow. I picked 10 years though most modern cars last far longer than this. But even at 10 years the numbers are hugely different and I challenge you to get BEV's anywhere near close to ICE in Co2 production. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 29, 2023 12:19:43 GMT
The basic facts are obvious. The CO2 emissions of a BEV occur mainly during manufacture of the battery. But these emissions are huge - about 18 tonnes for the battery of a Tesla for example. The manufacture of an average petrol car produces about 5 tonnes of CO2, and it'll produce about 20 tonnes of CO2 in its "lifetime". So, the CO2 emissions of BEVs are heavily front-loaded - i.e. they happen in the production of the car - while the CO2 emissions of a petrol car occur over its extended lifetime. How much CO2 a BEV emits is dependent on the energy mix in the production of electricity, which is variable. Whether the BEV will produce less or more CO2 in its lifetime is dependent on how much CO2 is emitted in producing the electricity it uses and how long the car lasts. Both are unknown quantities at the moment but I'd suggest that things are not looking good for the longevity of BEVs. One thing is for sure though - BEVs are NOT the holy grail for cutting CO2 that the ecomentalists seem to think. In fact the immediate effect of any mass switch to BEVs will result in hugely increased CO2 emissions. If the basic facts are so obvious quote where Mike Berners Lee states it. Your assumptions that the electricity may be produced by burning fossil fuels are poor assumptions. Most cars will be charged over night using spare wind energy. Renewable energy overtook fossil energy last year and will continue to grow.
No it did not - in the last year renewables have only provided 35% of our energy need. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Nov 29, 2023 14:32:53 GMT
If the basic facts are so obvious quote where Mike Berners Lee states it. Your assumptions that the electricity may be produced by burning fossil fuels are poor assumptions. Most cars will be charged over night using spare wind energy. Renewable energy overtook fossil energy last year and will continue to grow.
No it did not - in the last year renewables have only provided 35% of our energy need. And I think it's even less than 35% in reality. The claims are referring to the amount of renewable energy that's generated - whether it's used or not. As we know renewables are intermittent and uncontrollable so if the sun's shining they generate electricity but the trouble with the sun (as I've found with my own solar array) is that it generates vast amounts of electricity in Summer when we don't usually need it so much and not so much in Winter, when we do. But it can't be stored. So my solar panels generate huge amounts of electricity in Summer that mostly gets sent back into the local loop - in the hope that other people need it. But if they don't need it (which many don''t of course) it's just sent to earth - discarded - because the National Grid has no means of receiving electricity from the local loop. This is the problem with renewables. Most of the energy they generate is discarded and there isn't any way, that I know of, that they can record how much is actually used. So they just assume that all that's generated is used, when it isn't. It's not the same with non-renewable energy because it's controllable. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 29, 2023 19:12:46 GMT
If the basic facts are so obvious quote where Mike Berners Lee states it. Your assumptions that the electricity may be produced by burning fossil fuels are poor assumptions. Most cars will be charged over night using spare wind energy. Renewable energy overtook fossil energy last year and will continue to grow.
No it did not - in the last year renewables have only provided 35% of our energy need. Apologies, Non fossil fuel energy overtook fossil fuel energy last year and continues to grow. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 29, 2023 22:31:24 GMT
No it did not - in the last year renewables have only provided 35% of our energy need. Apologies, Non fossil fuel energy overtook fossil fuel energy last year and continues to grow. Thank you. Of course for many years that has been the case in France - embracing nuclear is the most effective way to wean yourself off fossil fuels. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 29, 2023 23:03:08 GMT
How long before this comes to the UK?..
"Germany’s residential grid operators will be empowered to restrict the flow of power to heat pumps and electric vehicle (EV) chargers from 2024 in order to preserve the stability of the grid."
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Post by zanygame on Nov 30, 2023 7:48:21 GMT
Apologies, Non fossil fuel energy overtook fossil fuel energy last year and continues to grow. Thank you. Of course for many years that has been the case in France - embracing nuclear is the most effective way to wean yourself off fossil fuels. And the most expensive. Nuclear supplied 15% of our electricity last year, Renewable 35% |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 30, 2023 7:52:36 GMT
How long before this comes to the UK?.. "Germany’s residential grid operators will be empowered to restrict the flow of power to heat pumps and electric vehicle (EV) chargers from 2024 in order to preserve the stability of the grid."
Glad we're not the only country with a useless government. "Across Europe, investments into grids are lagging behind what’s needed as the continent embraces heat pumps and electric vehicles." Not keeping up with what the public want. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 30, 2023 7:55:28 GMT
Thank you. Of course for many years that has been the case in France - embracing nuclear is the most effective way to wean yourself off fossil fuels. And the most expensive. Nuclear supplied 15% of our electricity last year, Renewable 35% But reliable - it keeps the lights on and makes you self sufficient. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 30, 2023 7:57:25 GMT
How long before this comes to the UK?.. "Germany’s residential grid operators will be empowered to restrict the flow of power to heat pumps and electric vehicle (EV) chargers from 2024 in order to preserve the stability of the grid."
Glad we're not the only country with a useless government. "Across Europe, investments into grids are lagging behind what’s needed as the continent embraces heat pumps and electric vehicles." Not keeping up with what the public want. Indeed - the vast cost of renewables is crippling to all countries. The UK is going to have to spend £50 Billion simply stringing wires to connect all these renewable producers, thats before you get one watt of power from them. |
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Post by walterpaisley on Nov 30, 2023 8:18:19 GMT
Yup . One more reason to avoid them . Insurance cost , fire hazard , range anxiety etc . Taking delivery of mine soon. My insurance cost isn't going to be ridiculous (Money Supermarket:".. in 2022 average premiums fell by £141 to £1,097 a year. In comparison, in 2022 on average, diesel cars cost £1,119 to insure, while petrol cars cost £1,087 2 – still, for the moment, slightly cheaper."). Battery fire doesn't seem to be any more of a consideration than any other type of car bursting into flames ( www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/electric-cars/how-much-fire-risk-are-electric-vehicles ), and I'm unlikely to get anxious about range because I'm not an idiot (which happens to be the same reason I'm unlikely to be concerned about being charged late fees at a public charging station). |
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Post by steppenwolf on Nov 30, 2023 9:00:42 GMT
Yup . One more reason to avoid them . Insurance cost , fire hazard , range anxiety etc . Taking delivery of mine soon. My insurance cost isn't going to be ridiculous (Money Supermarket:".. in 2022 average premiums fell by £141 to £1,097 a year. In comparison, in 2022 on average, diesel cars cost £1,119 to insure, while petrol cars cost £1,087 2 – still, for the moment, slightly cheaper."). Battery fire doesn't seem to be any more of a consideration than any other type of car bursting into flames ( www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/electric-cars/how-much-fire-risk-are-electric-vehicles ), and I'm unlikely to get anxious about range because I'm not an idiot (which happens to be the same reason I'm unlikely to be concerned about being charged late fees at a public charging station). Have you read that Autocar link? It's not very reassuring. In particular “ In Germany, three bus depots have gone up in flames in the past six or so months,”  Whether a BEV is more likely to catch fire or not isn't yet clear because there are so few BEVs on the road so far - and they're all relatively new compared to the vast number of petrol/diesel vehicles. As the BEVs get older their batteries are more likely to become faulty - as we've all found with Li-ion batteries. The problem is that a fire in BEV battery is so cataclysmic because of the temperature it burns at and the fact that it can't be put out. I suggest you park your electric car as far as possible from your house. |
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