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Post by Vinny on Oct 12, 2023 8:55:14 GMT
Think carefully about this.
Although his policy of appeasement failed, we were not in a position to go toe to toe with Germany and would have lost, badly if the war had started in 1938 or earlier.
He acted with the best of intentions to try and maintain peace whilst preparing for and ultimately declaring war.
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 12, 2023 12:42:55 GMT
Important to recall that both rearmament and the policy of appeasement were not Chamberlain's creation but were put in place during the National Government under Stanley Baldwin.
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 12, 2023 14:23:48 GMT
Think carefully about this. Although his policy of appeasement failed, we were not in a position to go toe to toe with Germany and would have lost, badly if the war had started in 1938 or earlier. He acted with the best of intentions to try and maintain peace whilst preparing for and ultimately declaring war. I don't think he was a great PM - but you are certainly correct that his actions were inadvertently essential to helping us survive in the early days of the war. |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 22, 2023 19:57:02 GMT
Think carefully about this. Although his policy of appeasement failed, we were not in a position to go toe to toe with Germany and would have lost, badly if the war had started in 1938 or earlier. He acted with the best of intentions to try and maintain peace whilst preparing for and ultimately declaring war. 100%. Its now widely accepted that Churchill was very cruel to Chamberlain who bought us time if nothing else. He was faced with an impossible choice. |
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Post by wapentake on Oct 22, 2023 20:23:36 GMT
Important to recall that both rearmament and the policy of appeasement were not Chamberlain's creation but were put in place during the National Government under Stanley Baldwin. Correct Dan and what a lot of people miss that we were where we were because of Baldwin though Chamberlain took all the flak. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 22, 2023 20:52:14 GMT
Think carefully about this. Although his policy of appeasement failed, we were not in a position to go toe to toe with Germany and would have lost, badly if the war had started in 1938 or earlier. He acted with the best of intentions to try and maintain peace whilst preparing for and ultimately declaring war. 100%. Its now widely accepted that Churchill was very cruel to Chamberlain who bought us time if nothing else. He was faced with an impossible choice. Along with Lord Halifax Neville Chamberlain was one of the two Conservatives that Churchill appointed to his War Caninet which wouldn't seem to be especially cruel on his part. |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 22, 2023 20:56:18 GMT
100%. Its now widely accepted that Churchill was very cruel to Chamberlain who bought us time if nothing else. He was faced with an impossible choice. Along with Lord Halifax Neville Chamberlain was one of the two Conservatives that Churchill appointed to his War Caninet which wouldn't seem to be especially cruel on his part. Dredging my memory here but wasn't Churchill forced to do that? "“You were given the choice between war and dishonour. You chose dishonour and you will have war.” |
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 22, 2023 21:12:14 GMT
Forced by whom?
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Post by zanygame on Oct 22, 2023 21:20:30 GMT
Parliament. To get the support he needed. |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 22, 2023 22:26:27 GMT
Think carefully about this. Although his policy of appeasement failed, we were not in a position to go toe to toe with Germany and would have lost, badly if the war had started in 1938 or earlier. He acted with the best of intentions to try and maintain peace whilst preparing for and ultimately declaring war. 100%. Its now widely accepted that Churchill was very cruel to Chamberlain who bought us time if nothing else. He was faced with an impossible choice. If war had started earlier we wouldn't have stood a chance. He bought us time. It's just a shame he didn't live to see VE day. |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 23, 2023 6:52:56 GMT
100%. Its now widely accepted that Churchill was very cruel to Chamberlain who bought us time if nothing else. He was faced with an impossible choice. If war had started earlier we wouldn't have stood a chance. He bought us time. It's just a shame he didn't live to see VE day. Yes, in the end Churchill did find kind words but too late. I would say Chamberlain was just another war victim. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2023 23:01:11 GMT
It is very much worth bearing in mind that had we gone to war in 1938, the Germans would have had far fewer tanks, guns and planes too. They actually built more in the year after Munich than we did. And we would have had as an ally in the east a much better equipped Czech Army than the Germans faced with the Poles in 1939, with far better border defences and far more defensible borders. Indeed, much Czech military equipment and arms factories were pressed into service for the Germans after their take over.
The years delay bought us nothing but a worse situation in 1939 than we would have faced in 1938. Appeasement was an utter failure in its intended purpose of preserving peace, and even in terms of buying us useful time, the Germans benefitted more from that time than we did,
Domestically too his government along with most others in the 20s and 30s were remembered as presiding over mass destitution, unemployment, and economic failure.
And Chamberlain himself was totally fooled by Hitler, seeing in him a man who would honour his word, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary already in existence. Chamberlain was one of our worst 20th century Prime Ministers. And a very poor judge of character, obviously.
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Post by Vinny on Nov 1, 2023 0:49:24 GMT
In 1938 they had the BF109 with fuel injected engine and cannons, we had the Gloster Gladiator biplane. They had the Panzer II which had a 20mm cannon, we had the Matilda I with .303 machine gun.
They had the Henkel He 111, we had the Bristol Blenheim.
We had HMS Hood, they had Gneisenau.
Chamberlain bought us time and saved us from defeat.
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Post by Montegriffo on Nov 1, 2023 0:57:58 GMT
Hurricanes went into production in 1937 and Spitfires in 1938.
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 1, 2023 7:51:47 GMT
Up until 1938 the Labour Party (and the LibDems) were opposed to rearmament so the country was split on whether we should get involved at all - this limited Chamberlains options.
Those saying that we should have gone to war in 1938 are not recognising the logistic or political realities of the time.
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