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Post by Fairsociety on Oct 13, 2023 18:52:09 GMT
WTF do you want them to do, be sitting ducks? The sitting ducks, as you put it, are the innocent Palestinian people. come again? |
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Post by morayloon on Oct 13, 2023 18:58:16 GMT
The sitting ducks, as you put it, are the innocent Palestinian people. come again? What do you not understand? |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 13, 2023 19:15:18 GMT
...We do not call China a terrorist state, we do not call Saudi a terrorist state and there are many other states around the world that treat groups of citizens no better than Israel does. However Israel always seems to be the nadir of evil for some, especially the left, and that tells a tale. Indeed. I wonder what's the most populous ethnicity in Israel? Hmmm... Now Let me see... |
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Post by Fairsociety on Oct 13, 2023 19:15:20 GMT
The sitting ducks, as you put it, are the innocent Palestinian people. come again? What do you not understand? I can't understand why innocent Israelis were going about their daily business and then all of a sudden blew to bits by Hamas Palestinian terrorists?
If you can understand that ...... I'm all ears, fill me in.
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Post by morayloon on Oct 13, 2023 19:28:48 GMT
What do you not understand? I can't understand why innocent Israelis were going about their daily business and then all of a sudden blew to bits by Hamas Palestinian terrorists?
If you can understand that ...... I'm all ears, fill me in.
I am not arguing about that. But the Israeli retribution is way beyond reasonable. They have killed and maimed thousands, way beyond the number of their own casualties. They should stop now while they retain some semblance of credibility. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 13, 2023 19:32:40 GMT
...But the Israeli retribution is way beyond reasonable... What retribution? They are defending themselves against an enemy whose sworn goal is to wipe out the Jews. No response is beyond reasonable compared to that. |
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Post by morayloon on Oct 13, 2023 19:38:04 GMT
...But the Israeli retribution is way beyond reasonable... What retribution? They are defending themselves against an enemy whose sworn goal is to wipe out the Jews. No response is beyond reasonable compared to that. Defending themselves? FFS, they have gone way beyond any semblance of defence. They are on the attack, are out of control and are murdering innocent people. As for wiping out the Jews, I don't know if that is true, but the Israelis are obviously out to rid themselves of the Palestinians. |
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Post by sandypine on Oct 13, 2023 19:39:50 GMT
I can't understand why innocent Israelis were going about their daily business and then all of a sudden blew to bits by Hamas Palestinian terrorists?
If you can understand that ...... I'm all ears, fill me in.
I am not arguing about that. But the Israeli retribution is way beyond reasonable. They have killed and maimed thousands, way beyond the number of their own casualties. They should stop now while they retain some semblance of credibility. Hamas are using the residential areas as bases for their operations. I am not clear how else Israel is meant to respond. In order to protect their own citizens they have to accept casualties in the areas from whence Hamas operate. This is the way of all conflicts. Of course some believe that Israeli is deliberately targeting civilians as punishment, there may be an element of truth in that but we have seen is Hamas deliberately targeting Israeli civilians. Like the IRA back in the 70s every death caused by the army or the 'occupying power' is good propaganda and Hamas will be lapping it up and using that propaganda to its full whilst not really caring one iota for the lives lost. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Oct 13, 2023 19:42:26 GMT
I can't understand why innocent Israelis were going about their daily business and then all of a sudden blew to bits by Hamas Palestinian terrorists?
If you can understand that ...... I'm all ears, fill me in.
I am not arguing about that. But the Israeli retribution is way beyond reasonable. They have killed and maimed thousands, way beyond the number of their own casualties. They should stop now while they retain some semblance of credibility. There is the key word 'retribution' ...
"punishment inflicted on someone as vengeance for a wrong or criminal act".
In other words it's a 'justifiable' retribution, the fact that Israeli are outclassing them on the battlefield is just a case of 'never underestimate your opponents'.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 13, 2023 19:44:58 GMT
What retribution? They are defending themselves against an enemy whose sworn goal is to wipe out the Jews. No response is beyond reasonable compared to that. Defending themselves? FFS, they have gone way beyond any semblance of defence. They are on the attack, are out of control and are murdering innocent people. As for wiping out the Jews, I don't know if that is true, but the Israelis are obviously out to rid themselves of the Palestinians. Israel faces an existential threat.
The original Charter of Hamas states that "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories,[3] and the obliteration of Israel...
Faced with an enemy that despises their very existence, what do you imagine an effective defence would look like?
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Post by Montegriffo on Oct 13, 2023 19:45:02 GMT
Which one? The Hamas one or the IDF one? Happy to call them both acts of terrorism. Why do you continue to draw a false equivalence between the atrocities committed by a proscribed terrorist organisation and the reasonable self-defence against the same by a recognised democratic state?
Why can you not see the difference? Or is it that you simply refuse to do so?
Because it's all the same to the innocent victims. Men, women and children killed in cold blood. Both are revenge for past wrongs and both perpetuate future wrongs. The cycle of violence must be broken or this will carry on forever. |
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Post by Hutchyns on Oct 13, 2023 19:45:55 GMT
Fairsociety
There's no reason why they shouldn't investigate promptly and efficiently why their Iron Dome, their drones, their sensors, their Army, their array of sophisticated surveillance equipment all appear to be hopelessly inadequate .... there really shouldn't need to be an acceptance that Israel has made a permanent switch to brutally efficient attack yet with a paper thin defence.
But serious questions need to be asked ...... every year the US sends eye wateringly large amounts of aid. How is it being allocated ?, as the quality of the defensive arrangements leaves a lot to be desired. Still being able to prove you can kill more of them than they killed of you, is some consolation of course, but initial prevention is surely preferable.
Have any adequate answers emerged to the questions of why, given the huge amounts that went into training and equipping the Afghan Military, that the rag-tag Taliban with their donkeys and pick-up trucks, could advance so fast that every defence crumpled in front of them, to the extent that those retreating by plane couldn't reach the airports fast enough ?
Let's ask the Defence Advisors why they appear to be doing such a lousy job. Too much emphasis on killing and too little thought and expenditure on actual defensive measures ?
Lessons need to be learned.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 13, 2023 19:48:56 GMT
I am not arguing about that. But the Israeli retribution is way beyond reasonable. They have killed and maimed thousands, way beyond the number of their own casualties. They should stop now while they retain some semblance of credibility. There is the key word 'retribution' ...
"punishment inflicted on someone as vengeance for a wrong or criminal act".
In other words it's a 'justifiable' retribution, the fact that Israeli are outclassing them on the battlefield is just a case of 'never underestimate your opponents'.
The key is indeed in the wording, note that Loon uses "Retribution", a innately perjorative term, rather than "Defence" or "Response". It's emotive language calculated to imply that Israel is somehow in the wrong at the outset. A narrative redolent of anti-Semitism. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Oct 13, 2023 19:53:45 GMT
I am not arguing about that. But the Israeli retribution is way beyond reasonable. They have killed and maimed thousands, way beyond the number of their own casualties. They should stop now while they retain some semblance of credibility. There is the key word 'retribution' ...
"punishment inflicted on someone as vengeance for a wrong or criminal act".
In other words it's a 'justifiable' retribution, the fact that Israeli are outclassing them on the battlefield is just a case of 'never underestimate your opponents'.
What wrongs did the children on either side commit to deserve vengeance? |
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Post by Fairsociety on Oct 13, 2023 19:58:20 GMT
There is the key word 'retribution' ...
"punishment inflicted on someone as vengeance for a wrong or criminal act".
In other words it's a 'justifiable' retribution, the fact that Israeli are outclassing them on the battlefield is just a case of 'never underestimate your opponents'.
The key is indeed in the wording, note that Loon uses "Retribution", a innately perjorative term, rather than "Defence" or "Response". It's emotive language calculated to imply that Israel is somehow in the wrong at the outset. A narrative redolent of anti-Semitism. Precisely, only a 'Loon' would argue that the massacre of innocent people did not warrant a backlash of 'retribution' on the same scale, when in fact the appropriate term would be 'defending' themselves in a act of war. |
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