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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 11, 2023 16:59:44 GMT
Who ordered it? Who did it?
Trigger alert: not suitable for ADHD sufferers. One of the enduring mysteries surrounding the final stages of the fall of the Third Reich, and also one of the still most contentious, concerns the flooding of the underground railway system in Berlin. The degree of contentiousness can be gauged from the several threads that have dealt with the topic on the Axis History Forum, including this one in which a number of auxiliaries of the Internet Division of the Antifa Brigade somewhat predictably ride to the defence of the Führerflutungsbefehl (Hitler Flooding Order) argument. The standard account holds that act was committed by SS troops on direct orders from Hitler, in callous disregard for the physical damage and loss of life that would ensue. Hitler would certainly have been aware that the underground system provided sanctuary for thousands of civilians driven out of their homes by fierce street-fighting, as well as thousands of wounded accommodated on hospital trains parked in the tunnels. This is usually adduced as evidence for Hitler’s nihilistic attitude to the German people as a consequence of his intense disappointment in their martial qualities. According to one account, an important one which has been relied upon subsequently by numerous later authors and commentators as well as film-makers, Hitler gave the order for the flooding during a conference on the night of April 25/26th:
Boldt was a junior officer assigned to the staff of General Hans Krebs, Chief of Staff for the OKH. Although there is some controversy about whether or not he was actually present in the Führerbunker on the dates he claims to have been, for the moment let’s take his testimony as read. Note: The English translation above appears in Hans Dollinger’s The Decline and Fall of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, Bonanza Books, New York, 1982, p. 233. Boldt’s book itself formed the basis for the 1973 production Hitler: The Last Ten Days, with Alec Guinness in the title role. I was uncertain whether the flooding order features in this film, so I watched it again recently. In fact it does, but not on the date cited by Boldt. In the film, Hitler gives the order to flood ‘the underground’ to General Krebs several days later, in fact on April 29th the evening before he commited suicide. So there immediately pops up an important discrepancy. Another reference to the episode, very frequently cited in the mainstream accounts, is an excerpt from the diary of an officer serving with the PzDiv Müncheberg, at that point defending the southern sector of the so-called Zitadelle defence zone. This particular version appears in Tony le Tissier’s excellent Berlin Battlefield Guide . Although le Tissier does not cite a source reference for the diary (nor do any of the other books that I have seen that also use it), he does give us the name of the diarist and, crucially, the date of the event described:
Note the reference to the Soviet film, we’ll return to that later. Immediately prior to the discussion of this entry, le Tissier provides some additional detail on where the explosion that is said to have caused the flooding on April 27th occurred: In an earlier publication, le Tissier provides what appears to be further corroboration for the Hitler Flooding Order: The above appears as a caption to an October 1945 photograph of the drained Landwehr Canal in le Tissier’s excellent publication for After The Battle Press, Berlin Then and Now [p.225]. And then we have, according to Anthony Read and David Fisher in The Fall of Berlin, WW Norton, 1992, pp 421-424: So there we have all the elements of the standard account: the HFO, the SS, the location, the account of the flooding and its dreadful if temporary effects. Once again we see the clear progression from order to execution to effect. Or do we? The final evidence I will present for the official story is from the doyen of post-war German historians, whose account of the last days of the Third Reich (Inside Hitler’s Bunker, Farrar, Strauss and Giroux, New York, 2004) is generally held to be authoritative. This is what Fest has to say about the flooding: Two curious anomalies arise here. First there is no reference to a HFO – Fest implies that the flooding was an action on the part of a ‘renegade’ unit, and secondly the date. If the explosion under the Landwehr Canal happened on May 2nd how could it have resulted in the flooding of the tunnel under the Anhalter Bahnhof on April 27th? Fest does seem to corroborate the ‘quickly draining away’ element even though, as we shall see, that is also factually inaccurate. More to come.
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 12, 2023 8:09:47 GMT
Part II
We left off last time with Joachim Fest’s account in which the Hitler Flooding Order, previously a staple of the standard account (and still prominently featured on Wikipedia), is conspicuously absent. Frustratingly, Fest does not provide footnotes with supporting sources for any of his statements because of, as he puts it in his bibliographic notes: ‘… the hopeless confusion in the statements and testimony of the witnesses, much of which can no longer be cleared up’. Not that he seems to have been particularly assiduous in pursuing potential witnesses – he never interviewed Rochus Misch, for example, Hitler’s personal valet and courier, and the last man present in the Führerbunker. Even more surprising, he does not appear to have interviewed either Otto Günsche, Hitler’s adjutant, nor SS-Brigadeführer Wilhelm Mohnke, commander of the defence forces in the so-called Zitadelle, both key sources I should have thought for commentary on what actually happened in those last few days. Anthony Beevor takes up the story on the morning of May 1st.
With Beevor we can see once again that the notion of an HFO has been abandoned. The stimulus for proceeding with the demolition of the S-Bahn tunnel under the Landwehr Canal appears to have come from remarks made by Mohnke (however see below for Mohnke’s own account) to SS-Brigadeführer Gustav Krukenberg, at the time commander of the remnants of the 11. SS-Division Nordland, stationed around the southern sector of the government quarter. We can’t view this exchange as a transmission of the HFO down the line for two reasons. First Mohnke denies that such an order even existed (see below) and second, Krukenberg did not report to Mohnke, but rather to General Helmuth Weidling, overall commander of the Berlin defence forces. Even if we stretched the point and assumed that Mohnke is lying, why would he have waited for six days (April 26th to May 1st) before passing the message on? The inference from Beevor is that Krukenberg acted on his own initiative but there are reasons to doubt even this interpretation. One issue with Beevor’s account, and this is a flaw that is shared by almost all of the others, is that it fails to take account of the physical layout of the Berlin underground rail system. In Berlin in 1945 (as still today) there are actually two completely separate local rail systems that run at least partially underground. (Although in fairness to Beevor, he does mention a 'connecting shaft'). There is the U-Bahn, which runs predominantly underground and was (and is) managed by the Berlin Municipal Transport Company (BVG), and there is the S-Bahn, which runs predominantly above ground, and in 1945 was managed by the state national railway company, Deutsche Reichsbahn (Deutsche Bahn today). One key factor in this discussion is that the two systems use completely different track and tunnel systems and, even where they intersect at an interchange station, they do so on physically different levels. So it is not a given that flooding in one section of one system will automatically result in flooding of the other system, as seems to be assumed by Beevor and others. I’ll defer further discussion on this point until later, when we take a closer look at what actually happened underground. We'll need to look at various maps other other visual evidence. In the meantime, here is Wilhelm Mohnke’s account, as told to American author James P O’Donnell. It appears in O’Donnell’s book The Bunker, Houghton Mifflin, New York 1978. It follows Mohnke’s description of the flight from the Reichs Chancellery on the night of May 1st/2nd.
The adamant guards Mohnke refers to were employees of the municipal transport company who were tasked with shutting the waterproof sluice gates under the Spree after the last U-Bahn train had passed. When Mohnke and his troupe of escapees from the Chancellery arrived at the gates the guards refused to open them resulting in Mohnke and company having to cross the Spree via the above-ground railway bridge crossing above the river. That would seem to be that, then; no Hitler Flooding Order. Part III coming up
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 12, 2023 8:24:59 GMT
Wot no replies?!?
I'm hoping there are enough members interested in Real History to get more replies than Monte's infantile tittle-tattle which has 79 responses to date.
Don't forget the Mind Zone is supposed to be the forum's Window to the World in which it is demonstrated to potential new members that a majority of members sit on the r.h.s. of the Bell Curve.
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Post by piglet on Oct 12, 2023 9:58:32 GMT
I do want part 3, four and five, ive read it all Baron, great stuff. Ive heard of a a ball curve but not a bell one, you have so much to offer, newbies will be flooding in, can i have your take on the Bell and the nazis ufos?
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 12, 2023 10:50:46 GMT
What?!? You don't want Parts VI and VII too? You'll be missing some of the best bits.
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 12, 2023 13:49:25 GMT
Part III Leaving aside (for the moment) the questions of ‘Who dun it?’ and why, this is probably an appropriate point to consider what actually did happen to the underground system in Berlin in April/May 1945, that is, during the very terminal phase of the Russian assault on Berlin. Separating what did actually happen from the surrounding myth might help in drawing inferences abouts the perpetrators, and their motivations. First, though, a little geography is inevitable. The following map will assist in general orientation. The Landwehr Canal stretches from centre left to lower right, and the Führerbunker is shown as #1. Krukenberg’s Nordland command post is in the Stadtmitte U-Bahn station (#15), while the command post of KG- Müncheberg is in the S-Bahn station alongside and under the Anhalter Bahnhof (#11). The site of the S-Bahn tunnel under the Landwehr Canal can be located as follows. Starting at the l.h.s. of the map find the fourth white arrow; the bridge to the left of that is the Möckernbrücke, and the tunnel is almost immediately (less than 100m) to the left (west) of the bridge.
The Landwehr Canal and the Zitadelle: 28 April 1945
Next, a couple of maps which depict the underground rail system. I tried to find maps that were as contemporary to the events as possible, that wasn’t totally feasible, however the two presented here have minimal changes to the system as it existed in 1945, and none that are relevant to this story.
First, the U-Bahn system, the S-Bahn lines are also shown on this one.
The Berlin U-Bahn system (1947)
And then the S-Bahn The Berlin S-Bahn system (1958); the U-Bahn lines are also shown on this. The section we are particularly interested is the underground section of the Nordsüd S-Bahn that runs from Großgörschenstraße/Yorckstraße in the south via Friedrichsraße in the centre to the Nordbahnhof (Stettiner Bhf in 1945) to the north. The tunnel under the Landwehr Canal is situated immediately to the north of the U-Bahn line between the Gleisdreieck and Hallesches Tor stations. Don’t be led astray by the proximity of the U-Bahn here, this is one of the stretches of the U-Bahn that runs on elevated tracks and was therefore not directly affected by the explosion. A glance at the U-Bahn map above will show, however, the intermediate U-Bahn station at the Möckernbrücke, which was severely damaged in the blast and still closed in 1947. It’s important to note, however, that no flooding of the U-Bahn system occured at this point due to the elevated nature of the tracks. Much of the following information and most of the illustrations are taken from a publication of the Berliner S-Bahn Museum Nordsüd-S-Bahn Berlin: 75 Jahre Eisenbahn im Untergrund, DVE Verlag, 2008. The Nordsüd S-Bahn was constructed during the 1930s, finally opening just after the outbreak of the war, in October 1939. So now on to the main event. Avoiding for the moment coming to any conclusions about who, why or even when, it is clear that something very violent happened at the scene, although curiously enough there appear to be no eyewitnesses to the event itself. Beevor puts that down to the civilians and German defenders in the area being confined to tunnels and bunkers, but what about the Russians? They were operating on the surface in large numbers in the vicinity of the Landwehr Canal, it’s rather odd that none should have have commented in their memoirs and reports on the explosion, which Beevor (as well as others) assume took place during the early morning hours (around 8 am). The scale of the destruction itself can be seen from this photograph, which depicts the north bank of the now-drained canal (Hallesches Ufer) and the deck of the damaged tunnel. S-Bahn tunnel under the Landwehr canal, under repair late summer 1945
Returning now back underground, what happened when the canal waters drained into the tunnel system? If we go with the account of the Müncheberg diarist then the waters rushed in, reached a peak depth of around a metre and quite quickly drained away. But that is is precisely the opposite of what actually happened in the Nordsüd S-Bahn tunnel. The waters continued to rise until, within a few days (4 or 5) the complete tunnel was filled from floor to ceiling along its entire 7 km length from the southern portal to the northern. The northern section above Friedrichstraße did not flood immediately because of the sluice gates under the Spree which were closed, but the gates eventually gave way and the entire tunnel was fully inundated by May 8th. The following graphics show the tunnel in cross-section with the maximum water level indicated. The caption reads “Cross-section through the tunnel from the southern portal to the Unter den Linden station. The circled numbers correspond to the numbers in Figures 2 and 3. The indicated water level at the height of 32.2 m shows that the entire tunnel, except for the very highest spaces, lay completely under water.” The flooded Nordsüd S-Bahn tunnel; Southern section from the southern portal to Unter den Linden
The flooded Nordsüd S-Bahn tunnel; Northern section from Unter den Linden to the northern portal As can be seen from the above cross-sectional diagrams, every station on the line from north to south was completely inundated, and far from the water draining away naturally it actually took several months of intensive pumping to get rid of the water. The following pictures show the situation in the tunnel once pumping had been in progrees for several weeks, enabling BVG staff and others to access the tunnel for the purpose of repair, retrieving the abandoned rolling stock, as well as the grisly business of recovering bodies. The first picture caption reads: “In Autumn 1945 the RB organised several canoe trips for journalists and others through the partially-drained tunnel. Following these tours it became clear that the number of victims was happily rather fewer than initially feared.” Autumn 1945: A press tour in the flooded tunnel Abandoned rolling-stock in the tunnel “Railway workers with carbide lamps inspecting an abandoned S-Bahn train in the half pumped-out Stettiner Bahnhof” One of the victims In the Autumn of 1945 the water level still covered the power rail in the platforms of the Anhalter S-Bahnhof. [In the lower picture] it can be seen that the ‘biblical’ flood brought down the suspended ciling, another indication that the station was completely flooded. The wooden sheathing for the power rail is visibly warped.”
The Anhalter S-Bahnhof in Autumn 1945 It would be November 1947 before the Nordsüd S-Bahn tunnel would be back in full service, with trains running on both tracks, end-to-end. So that’s the S-Bahn side of the story, but what about the U-Bahn? That’s next.
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 13, 2023 11:51:32 GMT
Part IV: the flooding of the U-Bahn In the previous post I focused on the flooding of the underground section of the Nordsüd S-Bahn which occurred following the breach of the rail tunnel under the Landwehr Canal. As shown the tunnel filled with water and remained so for several weeks, until the Landwehr Canal itself was dammed, and heavy pumps could be deployed. By mid-September the water level had fallen by 3 meters, and this permitted the first boat trips through the length of the tunnel. But what about the U-Bahn? As noted earlier, the S- and U-Bahn are completely separate systems except where they intersect at exchange stations. On the Nordsüd S-Bahn there are two main such interchanges: Potsdamer Platz and Friedrichstaße, and in order for the flood to enter the U-Bahn from the S-Bahn tunnel it would have to do so at such a physical interchange. At Potsdamer Platz, the nearest S-Bahn station to the Führerbunker, this would have been impossible, since the U-Bahn tunnel lies closer to surface at the point at which it crosses the S-Bahn tunnel. In addition the S-Bahn and U-Bahn stations are physically distant from each other and, at the time, there was no pedestrian access between the two. So, the next possibility was two stations further north, at Friedrichstraße. Here the U-Bahn tunnel not only lies at a lower level than the S-Bahn, and there is a direct connection in the form of a pedestrian stairway between the two. So, once the water level in the S-Bahn station rose above the platform level, it was able to make its way down the stairway and into the U-Bahn system. Eventually, around 25 km of the U-Bahn system became flooded, although nowhere to the extent that the S-Bahn tunnel suffered. Most accounts speak of a meter or a meter-and-a-half as being the maximum water level. The following map from the BVG shows the eventual extent of the flooding in the U-Bahn system. The caption reads “A graphic from the BVG shows the enormous scale of the U-Bahn sections affected by the flooding of the Nordsüd S-Bahn tunnel. The thick bars indicate water barriers, with the water flow was halted. Altogether about as much water found its way into the U-Bahn tunnels as in the S-Bahn tunnel.” The flooded U-Bahn, May 1945A couple of further points are worth noting. The flooding of the U-Bahn was not entirely due to the overflow from the S-Bahn tunnel. On April 3rd an Allied bomb damaged the tunnel under the Spree between the Klosterstraße and Märkisches Museum stations. The flooding was contained by closure of the tunnel sluice gates. In addition, as more of the city fell into Soviet hands the electricity supply to the groundwaters pumps in the U-Bahn tunnels was cut off. This resulted in some local inundation particularly along the ‘E’-line to the east of the city centre. The deep springs that caused this localised flooding are shown on the above map ( Tiefbrunnen). But what all discussion of the U-Bahn flooding highlights is what should have been rather obvious by now to anyone who wished to flood the system to prevent Russian incursions through the tunnels. The points to target for demolition should have been the tunnels that carry the U-Bahn under the Spree and the Spree Canal. If the objective was really to flood the U-Bahn, blowing up the S-Bahn tunnel under the Landwehr Canal was almost a futile exercise from a military perspective. That that act did result in some secondary flooding in the U-Bahn system, although hardly on a scale to deter Soviet troops if they been inclined to use the tunnels (which they actually weren’t), should really be considered as unintentional collateral damage. We should remind ourselves again that it was the U-Bahn (and not the S-Bahn) that is cited as being the issue as far as Hitler’s alleged outburst (and alleged order) is concerned. It is also the case that Mohnke and Krukenberg as well (according to Beevor) were both concerned about Russians using the U-Bahn tunnels to approach the Chancellery. This actually makes complete sense when looking at the maps of the two systems. The closest station on the S-Bahn is Potsdamer Platz, and on the date of Mohnke and Krukenberg’s meeting (May 1st) that area was already in Soviet hands. The next closest station is Unter den Linden, which was still in German hands. The Sanitäts-Abteilung of 11. Nordland was located there, along with four trains of German wounded. On the other hand, Russian troops had already crossed the Spree and Spree Canal to the east of the Chancellery and, if they were inclined to use the tunnels to get ‘behind’ the defenders that could only have meant the ‘A’-line. The Kaiserhof station on the A-line is literally across the street from the Chancellery and Stadtmitte, where Krukenberg had his command post, lies about 500m further east. Given that physical scenario, what possible sense would it have made for Krukenberg to dispatch his Nordland sappers to demolish the S-Bahn tunnel under the Landwehr Canal, which already lay almost 1 km to the rear of the Soviet positions. It just doesn’t make any sense. As we are discussing the Kaiserhof station this is an opportune moment to bring up the Soviet film mentioned earlier. This is the seven-hour 1969 epic Befreiung, a Soviet-DDR-Polish co-production which depicts the heroic Soviet forces on their campaign to defeat Nazi Germany and its Allies from the Battle of Kursk in 1943 to the fall of Berlin. The flooding of the underground appears in Part V from which the following still is taken. Unfortunately this is almost a complete fabrication, the Kaiserhof station was not inundated until several days after the cessation of hostilities and ther would have been no way that armed German soldiers would still have been present, let alone civilians and Soviet troops all jostling each other for space. A Soviet depiction of the U-Bahn floodingWhat would have made better sense would have been to demolish the U-Bahn tunnel in the vicinity of Potsdamer Platz, and this is probably the most rational explanation since it is the same ‘A’-line that passes through Kaiserhof, the next station to the east and, as noted, adjacent to the Chancellery and the Führerbunker. Recall again what Beevor cites: But then he goes on to infer that although Krukenberg .. In my view this inference is unwarranted, given the date concerned (May 1st) and the military situation on the ground. If the defence of the remains of the Zitadelle are the objective, what could possibly be gained by sending sappers to demolish a rail tunnel now far behind the Russian positions, and whose destruction would have negligible effect on the military situation? The following map shows the Russian and German positions on April 30th, i.e. the day before Mohnke and Krukenberg met for the last time. Dark rectangles denote Soviet units, white German. Note how far behind the front the Landwehr canal is even two days prior to the explosion of May 2nd. Situation map as 30.04.45Next up, a key source and then some concluding remarks.
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 13, 2023 16:16:19 GMT
Part V A new and different source has come to hand: Karen Meyer, Die Flutung des Berliner S-Bahn-Tunnels in den letzten Kriegstagen: Rekonstruktion und Legenden, GVE Verlag, Berlin 1992. This book has been out of print for years and I recently managed to obtain a copy from a second-hand bookseller in Germany. As of this moment, Meyer represents the last word on the tunnel flooding and its aftermath, there have been no subsequent scholarly works dealing with the matter in any such detail. I’d like to acknowledge that Anthony Beevor lists Meyer as one of his sources, and it is from him that I first became aware of the book. The book itself is quite slim, less than 70 pages, but it provides by far the most complete account yet published. Karen Meyer was an employee of the Kreuzberg Municipal Administration in central Berlin, and in late 1989 received the assignment to research the events of April/May 1945 in order to support the administration’s plan to erect a memorial to the victims of the flooding. However, as Meyer recounts in her Foreword, it became more and more obvious from her research that there were some very serious deficiencies in the ‘official story’. The more she investigated, the more obvious it became that some of the key components of the story, specifically who ordered the demolition and who perpetrated it, could not be ascertained with any reasonable degree of certainty. The book itself consists of a dozen or so sections, of which I offer two in translation here, following Meyer’s own Foreword. The first deals with the question of ‘The Order’, or what I termed the ‘Hitler Flooding Order’ (HFO) in previous posts. ForewordIn the autumn of 1989 the Municipal Assembly of Berlin-Kreuzberg decided to commemorate the victims of the flooding of the Berlin Nord-Süd S-Bahn tunnel which took place shortly before the end of the Second World War. No-one could have realised how many uncertainties and contradictions would actually become associated with this event, one which is known to every Berliner in one form or another. The Assembly’s commission amounted to the production and installation of commemorative plaques under the auspices of the Kreuzberg scheme for anti-fascist memorial plaques. As a first stage, historical research into the perpetrators and date of the tunnel flooding, as well as the number of victims, was to be conducted. On the basis of these studies the Committee of the Kreuzberg Anti-fascist Committee would then make recommendations as to the form and siting of the proposed memorial to the victims. It was thought that a stairway depicting the water-levels [in the tunnel] might be created, and discussions were held about which artist or artists might be commissioned. At the same time we commenced the historical research into the background behind the flooding. Through discussions with people who had experienced the last days of the war in Berlin, as well as others interested in the history of the period, we were able to locate valuable sources and publications which might not have otherwise come to light. This informal approach turned out to be remarkably successful, since we encountered extraordinary difficulties in executing archival research. Document collections were closed for months at a time because of asbestos removal work, it took over three months to get permission to access one city archive, files had disappeared and were no longer available, books were catalogued incorrectly, and source citations were either incorrect or missing entirely. There were times during which we suspected that active collusion was taking place with the aim of thwarting our enquiries. How else to explain that the entire state archives dealing with the flooding were untraceable? Or that in a book with over 100 correctly-attributed illustrations, the only one for which no source is cited are two showing the flooding inside the tunnel? Or that in a bound edition of a contemporary periodical the issue dealing with tunnel flooding is missing? A confusing pattern also appears from studying the available literature which deals with the flooding. Conflicting dates and figures arose, and as our research in the archives intensified, more questions than answers were turned up. It soon became evident that an extraordinary number of myths and legends had grown up around this event. The more we enquired and dug, the more interest we took in learning what actually happened in the tunnel. The more we investigated the more obvious it became that a 100% conclusive account would be impossible to create. The idea of the memorial display receded further into the background – how should the text be worded, given the evident uncertainty surrounding the event itself? And so the Kreuzberg Assembly modified its decision, and decided to confine the project to documenting the legend of the flooding, publishing our research findings and the story of the post-war reconstruction. What was actually blown up? When did it actually occur? Who was responsible? How many victims were there and who were they? This present volume presents the various theories about the flooding and presents the different accounts of the events in the S-Bahn tunnel. With the aid of a variety of sources and assistance from commentators we have laid bare the kernel of the legend and reconstructed the events themselves to the extent possible. Nevertheless many questions must remain open. [Acknowledgments to those providing assistance] Der Befehl (The Order)Today it would seem unimaginable that in those days an order could have been issued to blow up the tunnel under the Landwehr Canal and to deliberately inundate the S-Bahn tunnel. However in the majority of written accounts dealing with the flooding such an order is taken for granted, even though the actual content of such accounts is markedly different. Certainly no written order as such has ever surfaced. It appears most likely that an order to that effect must have been communicated only orally, if even that. Authors who attest to its existence are by no means in unison as to who actually issued the order, nor as to what it actually entailed. The American writer Michael A. Musmanno describes a Führerbefehl ‘Hitler Order’ to flood the U-Bahn under the Spree in his semi-documentary novel “Murder in the Underground”. Hitler is supposed to have ordered OKH Chief-of-Staff General Krebs to ‘open the valves’. In that way, the progress of the Soviets forces through the underground tunnel system was supposed to be prevented. Musmanno is said to have overheard a doctor in captivity discussing this ‘plan’. Musmanno’s depiction of the torrents of water inundating the U-Bahn tunnels is particularly dramatic:
This account, even though factually dubious and describing events that are supposed to have occurred in the U-Bahn, is included as evidential source material in the State Archives dealing with the flooding of the Nord-Süd tunnel of the S-Bahn.
When asked later [by American writer James P. O’Donnell – Ed.] whether an order had been issued from the Führerbunker for the flooding of the S- or U-Bahn system, the commander of the German forces in the so-called Zitadelle SS-Brigadeführer Wilhelm Mohnke responded as follows:
Unfortunately Mohnke’s statement is essentially unverifiable; no evidence of the BVG’s supposed response is available, nor is there any particular reason to believe the assertion that the water level would only reach a maximum of 1 meter, given the volume of water present in the Spree and the Landwehr Canal, as well as the natural groundwater level in central Berlin. To which must be added, however, that the tunnel demolition that actually occurred affected the S-Bahn and not the U-Bahn, which Mohnke was referring to.
Turning now to the account of Gerhardt Boldt, who attests that during the Situation Conference of April 27th, Hitler gave the order that special forces be dispatched to open the ‘sluices on the Spree’ in order that the S-Bahn tunnels to the south of the Reich’s Chancellery be flooded to prevent the incursion of Soviet forces. The extent of the geographical ignorance betrayed by this statement is staggering; to the south of the Reich’s Chancellery lies not the Spree, which is in the north, but rather the Landwehr Canal. In addition the reference to ‘opening the sluices’ bears no relationship to what actually took place; the blowing up of the tunnel under the Landwehr Canal.
But that obvious fact notwithstanding, the weekly magazine Heim und Welt reported on 24.2.52 that
“… ”
There seems little doubt that this account relies upon that of Boldt. In the same issue appears the account of a Reichsbahn employee who was directed to secure the northern floodgate under the Landwehr Canal, but who was prevented from doing so by an SS detachment who had been ordered to occupy the tunnel as part of the defensive perimeter. The same DRB employee is reported to stated that the SS demanded copies of construction plans of the tunnel.
That an order must have existed was also the position of the-then director of the BVG Walter Schneider, according to whom the order was intended to be implemented at the last possible moment. But even here no light is shed upon the question of from where such an order originated, and to whom it was issued. It seems that the rationale behind it was to prevent the Russians from entering the tunnel system to finish off the last pockets of resistance. This seems questionable since an above-ground assault made much sense for the Russians rather than to venture into the tunnel system, with the strong possibility of being ambushed. The tunnels were after all the last redoubt for the SS, the Wehrmacht, the Volkssturm as well as of course thousands of civilians.
The existence of an order is assumed in other accounts, but without any evidence being cited as to its origin or content. For example, Rudolf Kreger, Construction Director for the Reichsbahn refers to an ‘explosion order’:
“”
This raises the obvious question: Why the SS should be motivated to blow up [and flood] the same tunnel which they themselves were occupying. When one considers that the U- and S-Bahn tunnels formed the last bastion of the SS- and Wehrmacht forces in Berlin, what sense would it make for them to drive themselves out of their defensive positions and to remove their last chance for escape? On the other hand, the Red Army might well have had a strong motivation to flood the tunnels; as an alternative to bloody hand-to-hand combat, the opportunity to ‘flush out’ the last pockets of resistance would have had a definite appeal.[pp 16-19]
Part VI follows
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 14, 2023 8:20:44 GMT
Part VI
Here then are Meyer’s summary and concluding remarks, followed by my own.
The kernel of the Legend and the Unanswered Questions
Life in the Underground, in caverns, vaults or tunnels exercises a fascination, and not just for children. It seems that there is a macabre satisfaction to be found in the sinister darkness, which translates into an enormous interest in events in the ‘Underworld’. In the case of the tunnel flooding, for many people the unscrupulousness of the Nazis, who cared little even for their ‘own folk’, holds a special, horrible fascination. Like all catastrophes, the saga of the flooding grabs the attention. Nor surprisingly, the flooding of the Nord-Süd S-Bahn tunnel, and its consequences, have given rise to various legends, which have been disseminated over time by a wide variety of commentators.
Hardly coincidental, then, that the many books and other writings devoted to the subject should diverge wildly in their depictions of the extent of the flooding, its timing, and the identity and numbers of the victims. All rely to a greater or lesser extent upon the testimony of eyewitnesses. The witnesses themselves have necessarily placed their own experiences within the framework of other events and occurrences, and established connections in order to make their own recollections more explicable. Inconsequential water incursions in the tunnel become in this way associated with the Landwehr Canal explosion, and the people believe themselves to have been there when it happened.
Similarly there is the conviction, which surfaces again and again in the personal witness accounts, that the explosion occurred not at the Landwehr Canal, but in the tunnel where it passes under the Spree. Actually there also damage to the roof of the under-Spree tunnel, but this was a consequence of the demolition of the Ebert Bridge over the Spree. [One of the bridge pillars became lodged in the tunnel roof and, when removed by Soviet sappers to permit navigation on the river, exposed the hole in the roof, which then led to another flooding of the tunnel – Ed.] People who later saw the repair works in progress, and who had heard about the earlier flooding of the tunnel, easily arrived at the conclusion that the two were connected. For commentators who were not very familiar with the geography of the city came the additional handicap that when the underground rail system is referred to, it is the U-Bahn that is commonly meant, rather than the S-Bahn. Undoubtedly the authors of the numerous works that have dealt with the situation in Berlin in 1945 could have been more careful and reflective in avoiding such mistakes and half-truths.
After we had reviewed over 50 sources and reports dealing with the final battle in Berlin and the flooding of the Nord-Süd S-Bahn tunnel for their soundness and conclusiveness, as well as holding discussions with over two dozen contemporary witnesses, we were able to reconstruct at least part of the story and to refute certain myths. There can be no remaining doubt that the tunnel under the Landwehr Canal was blown up, and that this resulted in the flooding of the Nord-Süd S-Bahn. It is equally clear that the effort was professionally executed, and was not the result of an accident or a stray bomb. Although it is not possible to arrive at a precise death-toll, we can state that the number of victims lies between 100 and 200. It seems also indisputable that the explosion did not take place before the morning of May 2nd. It was not possible to establish a definitive time for the event, the possibility exists that it could have happened later.
This is supported by the testimonies of several witnesses who claim to have been present in the tunnel after the morning of May 2nd, and who experienced no sign of flooding. It seems likely however that it would take some time for the tunnel to become fully inundated. To bring clarity to this question one would need access to detailed construction plans to perform highly complex calculations. The question also remains open, as to how nobody present in the tunnels recalls either hearing a detonation or experiencing a pressure wave, which would have been very forceful inside the tunnel itself. Also indeterminable is the matter of who gave the order for the demolition and in whose interest it was to do so. It is not a foregone conclusion that German troops were responsible. Their motive for doing so is unfathomable. Conceivably it could have been done as a ‘scorched earth’ measure. From a military perspective, however, it seems more rational that the Red Army would implement such a measure in order to ‘flush out’ the last remnants of resistance from their tunnel-bastion. Whether the Soviets possessed the necessary local knowledge to position the explosives in the tunnel is another matter. Interestingly, however, the contemporary reports from the Soviet information bureau ‘Pravda’ contain no mention of the tunnel flooding. In view of the otherwise highly detailed reporting of the battle itself, and each minor advance, this is somewhat intriguing. The flooding of the tunnel by the Nazis would seem to have been ideal propaganda material, being a prime example of the malicious disregard for humanity on the part of the NS regime.
Whether any further light can be shed on this remains to be seen. The available source materials have been thoroughly examined, and can provide little further enlightenment. One might hope that in the future the Deutsch Reichsbahn will provide greater access to its archives than is presently the case, and that the currently dispersed depositories can be amalgamated and properly catalogued, as to facilitate further research. [At the time of writing the DRB was still a separate entity – the East German State Railway - as it had been during the entire period of the DDR – Ed.] Finally it is to be hoped that the gradual opening up of the contemporary Soviet archives might one provide a new perspective on the event.
My own conclusions
Based on everything that I have read thus far, I have come to the following conclusions.
1. There was no Hitler Flooding Order, or if there was, it was never executed. All accounts that mention such an order refer to an order to deliberately flood the U-Bahn, which would have made some practical sense but which never happened, and not to a flooding of the S-Bahn, which made absolutely no sense from the German perspective, but which actually happened (and subsequently led to some secondary flooding of the U-Bahn, but after the cessation of hostilities). The scene depicted in the Soviet film “Liberation” never happened since the Stadtmitte U-Bahn station had long since been evacuated before it became flooded. It is pure Soviet propaganda. 2. It is likely that the S-Bahn tunnel under the Landwehr Canal had been prepared for demolition (as had all other bridges and underwater tunnels) by the defending forces. 3. Nobody on the German side, not even Krukenberg who was in Soviet captivity for ten years. has ever come forward to admit an complicity in the explosion. 4. The area affected by the explosion was far behind the Russian lines by May 2nd. It seems most likely that the order for the actual demolition was given by a local Soviet commander on his own initiative, after Russian troops had come across the prepared charges in the tunnel. The motivation would have been to ‘flush out’ the last fanatical resistance in the tunnels, however anybody familiar with the disposition of the last defending units or the Berlin municipal rail system would not have chosen to flood the S-Bahn tunnel for that purpose. Whoever did it was obviously unaware that the S-Bahn and the U-Bahn are physically separate systems, and it was only the serendipitous presence of the pedestrian tunnel at the Friedrichstaße Bahnhof 5 km to the north that enabled the flood water to pass from the S-Bahn system into the U-Bahn. 5. The Soviet perpetrators must have been silenced in one way or another, and any reference to the operation censored out of Soviet accounts. Meyer recounts in the foreword to her book the fact that key files relating to the events are missing from the Berlin State Archives (they are listed in the general catalogue but not physically present). The rationale for the Soviet silence would of course have been the propagation of the HFO myth. 6. Since all the key archives and source materials, particularly those relating to the post-war activities of the BVG and Deutsche Reichsbahn, remained under East German control until 1990 at least, there would have been ample opportunity to remove compromising material.
The End
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Post by piglet on Oct 18, 2023 10:37:51 GMT
No it isnt, you cant end brilliance. As for tunnels, when i was a child Stan down the road, a ww2 vet built tunnels under his house, even made little rooms, im sure it was an attempt at self preservation from bombs etc, even though there wasnt any. Hitler built vast labyrynths of underground tunnels all over europe, a subconscious attempt at self preservation. Hitler was of a personality type that can lapse into psychosis even at the best of times.
Its no secret that those that run society are crazy, look at Davey, the lib dem geezer. As a matter of interest, can i ask what triggered the above? there seems to be no obvious reason for it.
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