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Post by Pacifico on Oct 4, 2023 22:07:25 GMT
Make fun of the UK’s unbuilt train lines, despair of its featherweight politicians, but it is doing better than the continent at fighting extremists
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Post by dappy on Oct 5, 2023 8:19:13 GMT
This is actually an interesting phenomenon. The populist right parties do seem to be doing much worse in Britain than in man y other countries. I can think of a few possible explanations for that poor performance but would be interested to see first what those of that political persuasion blame for their relative failure.
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 5, 2023 8:48:02 GMT
The Long March has proceeded further and faster in Britain than in any other western country with the possible exception of Sweden. The Gramscians have won and now have total hegemony over all political and cultural institutions.
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Post by Vinny on Oct 6, 2023 8:12:17 GMT
This is actually an interesting phenomenon. The populist right parties do seem to be doing much worse in Britain than in man y other countries. I can think of a few possible explanations for that poor performance but would be interested to see first what those of that political persuasion blame for their relative failure. The moderate right has killed the far right in the UK. You can thank UKIP. |
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Post by dappy on Oct 6, 2023 8:56:25 GMT
Actually I agree with you Vinny. I would suggest the primary reasons for the relative failure of the “populist” right in the UK are fourfold
1) Nigel Farage
Much as I dislike his politics, he did , along with the disastrous Question Time appearance, play a major part in killing off the BNP
2) Nigel Farage
A good communicator and disrupter, he is however very ill-disciplined, a drunk and an extreme narcissist. As a result he invariably falls out with anyone likeminded who could have broadened out the populist movement, prioritizing his ego over populisms needs
3) Brexit
Populism in Europe is essentially a protest movement. Brexit was our protest and its failure to improve lives has reduced populisms appeal
4) Electoral System
It is very hard to win seats in parliament and very hard to sustain a protest movement without seats. It’s why the populists have largely given up on their own political party and instead are attempting to take over the existing Tory major party. It looks like they might succeed. Whether a UKIP cuckoo Tory party can succeed electorally remains to be seen.
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Post by Einhorn on Oct 6, 2023 9:11:01 GMT
This is actually an interesting phenomenon. The populist right parties do seem to be doing much worse in Britain than in man y other countries. I can think of a few possible explanations for that poor performance but would be interested to see first what those of that political persuasion blame for their relative failure. The moderate right has killed the far right in the UK. You can thank UKIP. Or the first past the post system keeps the extremists out of Westminster, including UKIP. If the rest of Europe turned to a FPTP system, there would be an immediate and severe reduction in the number of far right members in parliaments there. Scrap the FPTP system in the UK, and Westminster will soon include a noisy minority of extremists, as happens in countries with proportional representation systems. |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 6, 2023 9:17:46 GMT
Nigel Farage is great on Question Time, a regular guest. And he annoyed the far left to the point of meltdown.  Remember this shrieking far left crone? Fat lot of good her hateful nonsense has done her. Labour have been in opposition for the last 13 years. |
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Post by dappy on Oct 6, 2023 9:22:46 GMT
I was referring to Griffins disastrous QT performance that along with Farage killed off the BNP.
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Post by Vinny on Oct 6, 2023 9:37:38 GMT
Griffin was on QT in 2009.
In 2010 his rabble got 564,331 votes whereas UKIP got 919,546 votes.
The rise of UKIP killed the BNP.
In 2015 the BNP got 1,667 votes whereas UKIP got 3,881,099 votes.
The non racist moderate Euro-skepticism of Nigel Farage era UKIP killed the racist extremism of the BNP off, as well as Labour.
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Post by dappy on Oct 6, 2023 9:49:51 GMT
You seem to be repeating what I posted above Vinny. Farage through UKIP did play a major part in killing off the BNP along with Griffins disastrous QT appearance.
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Post by bancroft on Oct 6, 2023 10:03:07 GMT
This is actually an interesting phenomenon. The populist right parties do seem to be doing much worse in Britain than in man y other countries. I can think of a few possible explanations for that poor performance but would be interested to see first what those of that political persuasion blame for their relative failure. Probably because the Tories have shifted to the populist right. How far remains to be seen yet a delay on phasing out combustion engines and stopping Albanian immigrants shows there is somersetting in it. |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 6, 2023 10:04:56 GMT
You seem to be repeating what I posted above Vinny. Farage through UKIP did play a major part in killing off the BNP along with Griffins disastrous QT appearance. Griffin's disastrous QT appearance didn't really harm the BNP that much, given they got half a million votes one year after it. What did the harm to them, was moderates talking about sensible immigration controls rather than ending immigration as the BNP had wanted. |
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Post by dappy on Oct 6, 2023 12:00:49 GMT
Griffin’s QT appearance ended the momentum of the BNP which at the time was growing fast, hence why he was invited onto QT. It was a spectacular own goal. Without it he would have probably killed off UKIP and Farage. Absolutely though by providing an alternative right wing populist protest opportunity, Farage and UKIP played a major part in killing off the BNP.
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Post by bancroft on Oct 6, 2023 13:29:39 GMT
UKIP seemed a broader church with besides Farage, Roger Knappman and Pearson whereas the BNP seemed to be just Griffin.
There were other economic differences too, the BNP seemed to be more to the Left.
Farage was able to use media in a way Griffin couldn't.
It maybe Farage survived as the media onslaught was against the BNP and by the time they realised Farage was a threat he was too well known.
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