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Post by Vinny on Sept 28, 2023 8:01:21 GMT
Should they be scrapped for medical subjects? After all, they're going to end up paid out of public taxes. |
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Post by Dogburger on Sept 29, 2023 6:45:24 GMT
Should they be scrapped for medical subjects? After all, they're going to end up paid out of public taxes. I think we have to protect ourselves from the scenario of training people up and then see them leaving either into the private sector or overseas . So no it shouldnt be free but maybe return the training fees through an annual bonus linked to years of service in the NHS |
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Post by Vinny on Sept 29, 2023 7:34:46 GMT
Could have a cash bond to be repaid IF they leave the NHS.
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Post by thomas on Sept 29, 2023 8:13:18 GMT
Should they be scrapped for medical subjects? After all, they're going to end up paid out of public taxes. Thanks god we dont have tuition fees. England now the second highest charged country in world for uni tuition . In a decade or so , the english government will be crying how they cant understand why very few young english kids want to go to university , take on 70 grand debts , and so will be telling you vinny how english business needs mass immigration from better educated foreign lands.
Another reason to keep the brit parties out of power in scotland.
nothing is free. If you mean though should the taxpayer fund the training of doctors , for their benefit in terms of treatment and taxes being paid back into the system by doctors , then surely this is a valid arguemnt?
After 7 half years training on low incomes , mass debts , junior english doctors are on a starting salary of 30 grand is it? Yet in some banks , graduates are earning starting salaries of £43 k plus bonuses and perks?
Who would be a doctor or student in your country vinny.
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 29, 2023 10:51:51 GMT
Should they be scrapped for medical subjects? After all, they're going to end up paid out of public taxes. Thanks god we dont have tuition fees. England now the second highest charged country in world for uni tuition . In a decade or so , the english government will be crying how they cant understand why very few young english kids want to go to university , take on 70 grand debts , and so will be telling you vinny how english business needs mass immigration from better educated foreign lands.
Another reason to keep the brit parties out of power in scotland.
nothing is free. If you mean though should the taxpayer fund the training of doctors , for their benefit in terms of treatment and taxes being paid back into the system by doctors , then surely this is a valid arguemnt?
After 7 half years training on low incomes , mass debts , junior english doctors are on a starting salary of 30 grand is it? Yet in some banks , graduates are earning starting salaries of £43 k plus bonuses and perks?
Who would be a doctor or student in your country vinny.
English Universities are oversubscribed so its looking that quite a few people are pretty keen |
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Post by thomas on Sept 30, 2023 10:44:24 GMT
Thanks god we dont have tuition fees. England now the second highest charged country in world for uni tuition . In a decade or so , the english government will be crying how they cant understand why very few young english kids want to go to university , take on 70 grand debts , and so will be telling you vinny how english business needs mass immigration from better educated foreign lands.
Another reason to keep the brit parties out of power in scotland.
nothing is free. If you mean though should the taxpayer fund the training of doctors , for their benefit in terms of treatment and taxes being paid back into the system by doctors , then surely this is a valid arguemnt?
After 7 half years training on low incomes , mass debts , junior english doctors are on a starting salary of 30 grand is it? Yet in some banks , graduates are earning starting salaries of £43 k plus bonuses and perks?
Who would be a doctor or student in your country vinny.
English Universities are oversubscribed so its looking that quite a few people are pretty keen wasnt one of your arguments on the old forum that tony blair had devalued the university system by oversubscribing the universities by encouraging everyone to go to uni , while many were doing worthless degrees ?
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 30, 2023 21:10:07 GMT
Oh yes - the aim to have 50% of kids going to Uni is daft. But that applies to Scotland as well as England.
However medical courses (for Doctors or Nursing) are massively oversubscribed, so the demand is there.
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Post by dodgydave on Oct 1, 2023 19:07:18 GMT
Keep tuitions fees, but repayments start at higher tax rate (£50k) and make the percentage smaller (say 5%).
The £27k start point is far too low.
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Post by thomas on Oct 1, 2023 19:31:43 GMT
Oh yes - the aim to have 50% of kids going to Uni is daft. But that applies to Scotland as well as England. However medical courses (for Doctors or Nursing) are massively oversubscribed, so the demand is there. i agree with your initial sentence. university based on merit rather than a labour party "tick box target" should always be the aim.
what do you mean?
ok so why are they calling to write off student debt for medical students to stop them leaving the english nhs? Huge numbers in england are failing to finish training or leaving englands nhs soon after starting.
so you say the medical courses are oversubscribed , but vinnys article tells us ther is apparently a major problem. I also read scotlands medical training ranks higher than the rest of the uk nations including england.
So clearly something is going wrong.
Scotland ranks highly for Medical training
Scotland performs strongly for the quality of its medical training, a GMC UK-wide survey of 70,000 doctors reported today. Overall satisfaction among trainees was higher in Scotland than in the other UK nations.
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 1, 2023 21:19:25 GMT
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Post by thomas on Oct 2, 2023 6:35:10 GMT
forgive me here pacifico , but you are all over the place in this thread. You said , in reply to my earlier post where i said this...
regarding the op and the inherent problems english universities are facing regarding medical students , you dismissed concerns by saying this...
which doesnt address the op , where it clearly points out despite english universities being oversubscribed for medical students , they are failing to complete training or leaving englands nhs soon after qualification , hence the arguments about scrapping fees in the op.
Now to further dismiss the evolution of discussion about this in the thread , you now admit england does have problems , but that they are the same as scotland.
This isnt the case. Your BMA article in your link is from 8th march this year , prior to the resolution of the dispute regarding junior scottish doctors , where as you would expect the bma is sticking up for its members.
This has since been resolved in scotland , but hasnt in your country pacifico. So im not sure how england has the same problems as scotland , when we are capable of coming to an agreement with our doctors , while your government dont appear to be in yours.
BMA article from august....
Junior doctors in Scotland accept pay offer
Dr Smith said the Scottish government’s commitment to long-term pay restoration is ‘key’ to the offer and ‘sets it apart from what is happening elsewhere in the UK’.
Junior doctors in England walked out for the fifth time from 11-15 August and have said the UK government’s six per cent pay offer plus a lump-sum payment is not credible
No wonder you cant retain doctors and medical students if your government doesnt value them and come to an agreement to pay them accordingly.
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 2, 2023 6:42:03 GMT
No wonder you cant retain doctors and medical students if your government doesnt value them and come to an agreement to pay them accordingly.
They are paid very well - hence the oversubscription for training places |
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Post by thomas on Oct 2, 2023 6:48:08 GMT
No wonder you cant retain doctors and medical students if your government doesnt value them and come to an agreement to pay them accordingly.
They are paid very well - hence the oversubscription for training places clearly they dont believe they are in england , hence why they are on strike in your country , but have resolved any difference in scotland , and large numbers are dropping out of medical training or leaving soon after qualification. |
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 2, 2023 7:23:26 GMT
They are paid very well - hence the oversubscription for training places clearly they dont believe they are in england , hence why they are on strike in your country , but have resolved any difference in scotland , and large numbers are dropping out of medical training or leaving soon after qualification. Applications for training are oversubscribed and retention rate in the NHS is lower than the average in the UK economy - there simply is no evidence of any crisis in manpower - unless you only read the tabloids. |
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Post by thomas on Oct 2, 2023 7:37:16 GMT
clearly they dont believe they are in england , hence why they are on strike in your country , but have resolved any difference in scotland , and large numbers are dropping out of medical training or leaving soon after qualification. Applications for training are oversubscribed and retention rate in the NHS is lower than the average in the UK economy - there simply is no evidence of any crisis in manpower - unless you only read the tabloids. so you keep saying pacifico. Im merely responding to the op where it says this...
Student loans in England should be written off for certain health staff once they have completed 10 years of NHS service, experts say.
The Nuffield Trust said the financial incentive was needed to stop a "dropout crisis" among nurses, midwives and other front-line staff.
It warned huge numbers were failing to finish training, or leave the NHS soon after starting.
you keep saying application for training is oversubscribed , which is irrelevant to the point the article makes that there is a dropout crises.
thats a bad thing then right? surely it should be equal to or higher?
err we have evidence that junior doctors are on strike i england , who are clearly unhappy about pay and conditions. The original post is talking about a manpower crises , drop out rate , and while i can agree with you regarding tabloids and the bbc , clearly the nuffield trust is widely and highly regarded.
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