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Post by Orac on Sept 25, 2023 7:36:39 GMT
It is the moderates who have argued the case for less racism in this country. Right wingers seem to just accept the status quo. Less racism means more race laws, or more use of the race laws, if one sees racism as a problem. No one has addressed the moral problem as to why racism is bad. Is it bad becasue people should not be judged or discriminated against as individuals by the colour of their skin? I think most people accepted the race laws initially as targeting actual racism although there were many inconsistencies as regards the whys and wherefores. Now they seem to actively work to preclude white people from positions of influence and open celebration of the election or placing of an ethnic minority person in any position seems at best...racist. I have to confess a long time ago I applauded the arrival of Trevor Macdonald on our screens as it seems he won through despite racism against him. Now I see black faces everywhere and I no longer celebrate as I view it as deliberate racial policy. How times change. 'anti discrimination' legislation is, by its very nature, a dangerous infringement of civil liberties. Our society works on the basis that we all have the right to choose (ie to discriminate) - this is a key part of the reason our society is/was successful. I guess it may be technically possible that such law would not mutate into being abusive, but it would need everyone to use a shared common sense and have goodwill. |
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Post by dappy on Sept 25, 2023 8:12:47 GMT
Politics (and by extension laws) is about balancing peoples conflicting rights - in this case prioritising individuals rights not to be discriminated against on the basis of their sex, race, sexuality etc over other peoples rights to discriminate. As ever its about finding the best balance between the two.
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Post by Dan Dare on Sept 25, 2023 8:18:39 GMT
Of course the reason why we see black faces everywhere is deliberate racial policy and not just at the BBC.
The 'diversity and inclusion' section of the annual report of the Home Office includes a proud boast that the 2025 target for ethnic minority staff (24%) was already met in 2022. In 2022 the proportion of white British recruits in the Civil Service Fast Stream was 66% compared to 81% of the population of England and Wales (2021).
It's institutional racism.
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Post by Orac on Sept 25, 2023 9:07:47 GMT
Politics (and by extension laws) is about balancing peoples conflicting rights - in this case prioritising individuals rights not to be discriminated against on the basis of their sex, race, sexuality etc over other peoples rights to discriminate. As ever its about finding the best balance between the two. People can't have a right not to be 'discriminated against'. Such a 'right' is in logical contradiction to anyone else having rights. |
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Post by dappy on Sept 25, 2023 9:15:35 GMT
Of course they can.
The political choice is how to balance competing rights.
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Post by Orac on Sept 25, 2023 9:26:30 GMT
Of course they can. The political choice is how to balance competing rights. There is nothing coherent to balance. The notion is logically incoherent (contradictory)A person can't have a symmetrically held right not be 'discriminated against' because, with regards to that person, everybody else's rights only amount to their right not to involve them (to discriminate against them). Everybody holding this right equally would mean nobody has any rights. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Sept 25, 2023 9:31:16 GMT
We've already seen how that works in practice e.g. the cases involving the rights of Christian hotel-keepers versus those of homosexuals. The latter trump the former every time.
And as noted above, the right if white British people to take up employment in the public sector is significantly constrained by the right of people of colour to compensation for historical injustices, perceived if not actually real.
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Post by dappy on Sept 25, 2023 9:37:17 GMT
The Government has decreed Dan, rightly in my view, that there must be no discrimination based on race in employment decisions. That applies equally in both directions and applies as much to publlc sector jobs as private sectors.
Your post is not understandable Orac. But managing competing rights is the very essence of politics. You have a right a drive your car at whatever speed you choose, I have a right not to be injured or killed due to your excessive speed. Finding the balance between those competing rights is what politics is.
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Post by Dan Dare on Sept 25, 2023 9:39:02 GMT
The government is obviously ignoring its own decree dappy.
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Post by dappy on Sept 25, 2023 9:47:35 GMT
If that is the case Dan, then anyone affected should sue them. Serious amounts of compensation available.
Of course that requires real discrimination in the real world not just that in your head.
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Post by Dan Dare on Sept 25, 2023 9:53:42 GMT
If you don't think that discrimination is real how do you account for the fact 36% of the recruits for the Civil Service Fast Stream are BME?
As for suing, when was the last time you heard of a white British person receiving compensation for racial discrimination in either the public or the private sector?
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Post by Orac on Sept 25, 2023 9:54:00 GMT
We've already seen how that works in practice e.g. the cases involving the rights of Christian hotel-keepers versus those of homosexuals. The latter trump the former every time. And as noted above, the right if white British people to take up employment in the public sector is significantly constrained by the right of people of colour to compensation for historical injustices, perceived if not actually real. Indeed. The right not to be 'discriminated against' is conveniently forgotten when it conflicts with another logically contradictory right - ie the right of black people to be employed by the government. The net result of all this nonsense is an eroding of people's rights and an increase in the discretion and scope for those in power |
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Post by dappy on Sept 25, 2023 10:34:23 GMT
I haven't seen the source for your figure Dan and you do have a bit of a reputation for getting figures wrong. Could you link please.
The law is the law Dan. It is available to all.
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Post by Equivocal on Sept 25, 2023 10:38:14 GMT
If you don't think that discrimination is real how do you account for the fact 36% of the recruits for the Civil Service Fast Stream are BME?
As for suing, when was the last time you heard of a white British person receiving compensation for racial discrimination in either the public or the private sector?
Matthew Furlong is the latest I can recall from the police without doing any research, and there are 30 to 40 RAF employees (white and heterosexual, not sure on the British) currently negotiating damages.
That said, if I am able to quote specific cases without any research, it suggests there is a problem with public sector recruitment unlawfully discriminating against, in particular, white, heterosexual men.
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Post by Dan Dare on Sept 25, 2023 11:06:26 GMT
I haven't seen the source for your figure Dan and you do have a bit of a reputation for getting figures wrong. Could you link please. The law is the law Dan. It is available to all. Ethnic minority representation: 66.4% white British
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