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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Sept 25, 2023 13:33:15 GMT
..Overall though it seems that most of us are substantially worse off financially as a result of leaving... Can you show your workings please? |
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Post by sandypine on Sept 25, 2023 13:36:51 GMT
It is a fact that the general academic achievement obtained was closely correlated to the way people voted but obviously that doesn't mean there were not exceptions both ways. What do I miss most about the EU? - the right to live and work where I choose - whether in the UK or in Europe - and the economic prosperity that membership gave us immediately spring to mind. To ask the corollary question. How has your life improved as a result of leaving the EU? WE did not vote to be better off, but we may well be who knows, we voted to be free from foreign interference in our democracy. So far that has been a difficult road and we have miles to go yet before we win through. EDIT Just a thought the favourite argument from Remainers certainly in 2016 and 2017 was people did not vote to be worse off, however now we could turn the argument around as regards netzero and say people did not vote to be worse off. As regards Brexit the relative situation is largely unknown as regards being worse or better off, as regards netzero there is little doubt that most of teh population are, and will undoubtedly be, worse off. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Sept 25, 2023 13:51:27 GMT
..Overall though it seems that most of us are substantially worse off financially as a result of leaving... Can you show your workings please? LOL, don't hold your breath. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Sept 25, 2023 13:58:50 GMT
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Post by see2 on Sept 25, 2023 14:20:07 GMT
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Sept 25, 2023 14:24:05 GMT
Dappy, since you appear to be struggling, allow me to help: In April to June 2023, annual growth in regular pay (excluding bonuses) in the UK was 7.8%; this is the highest regular annual growth rate since comparable records began in 2001. www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/august2023In the EU, hourly wages & salaries increased by 5.1 % and the non-wage component by 4.4 % in the second quarter of 2023. ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Labour_cost_index_-_recent_trendsMeanwhile, the cost of living index (including the rent index) makes the UK slightly cheaper to live in than France and slightly more expensive to live in than Germany. www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/rankings_by_country.jsp?title=2022®ion=150And our average monthly wage is some $100 less than in Germany but some $400 more per month than France. www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_price_rankings?itemId=105In aggregate, it would appear that our wages and cost of living are, within the margin of error, pretty much the same as our nearest comparable EU neighbours - France & Germany. So the idea that we are somehow worse off for leaving their club is risible. As is the notion that we would somehow magically become better off should we rejoin it.
Indeed, if you want to look for a European country that is substantially better off it would be Switzerland. But of course they're not in the EU either.
So your assertion that most are worse off, let alone substantially so, due to leaving the EU simply isn't borne out by the facts.  |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 25, 2023 17:09:18 GMT
So a guy from a pro-EU thinktank has come up with some hypothetical data that shows the UK being worse off now we have left... Yeah..OK..  |
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Post by dappy on Sept 25, 2023 17:18:04 GMT
Dappy, since you appear to be struggling, allow me to help: In April to June 2023, annual growth in regular pay (excluding bonuses) in the UK was 7.8%; this is the highest regular annual growth rate since comparable records began in 2001. www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/august2023In the EU, hourly wages & salaries increased by 5.1 % and the non-wage component by 4.4 % in the second quarter of 2023. ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Labour_cost_index_-_recent_trendsMeanwhile, the cost of living index (including the rent index) makes the UK slightly cheaper to live in than France and slightly more expensive to live in than Germany. www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/rankings_by_country.jsp?title=2022®ion=150And our average monthly wage is some $100 less than in Germany but some $400 more per month than France. www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_price_rankings?itemId=105In aggregate, it would appear that our wages and cost of living are, within the margin of error, pretty much the same as our nearest comparable EU neighbours - France & Germany. So the idea that we are somehow worse off for leaving their club is risible. As is the notion that we would somehow magically become better off should we rejoin it.
Indeed, if you want to look for a European country that is substantially better off it would be Switzerland. But of course they're not in the EU either.
So your assertion that most are worse off, let alone substantially so, due to leaving the EU simply isn't borne out by the facts. Even you must know that that is utterly economically illiterate. Pretty much all economists agree that the economy is now substantially smaller than it would have been had we not left. An article has been posted above. There are loads more all over the internet if you want to be objective. On a more positive note we do now have a trade deal with Brunei….. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Sept 25, 2023 17:23:49 GMT
I'll take that as a "No" then.  |
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Post by dappy on Sept 25, 2023 17:27:20 GMT
Eh?
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Sept 25, 2023 17:34:59 GMT
The thread title turned out to be remarkably apt.
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Post by sandypine on Sept 25, 2023 20:47:37 GMT
Dappy, since you appear to be struggling, allow me to help: In April to June 2023, annual growth in regular pay (excluding bonuses) in the UK was 7.8%; this is the highest regular annual growth rate since comparable records began in 2001. www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/august2023In the EU, hourly wages & salaries increased by 5.1 % and the non-wage component by 4.4 % in the second quarter of 2023. ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Labour_cost_index_-_recent_trendsMeanwhile, the cost of living index (including the rent index) makes the UK slightly cheaper to live in than France and slightly more expensive to live in than Germany. www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/rankings_by_country.jsp?title=2022®ion=150And our average monthly wage is some $100 less than in Germany but some $400 more per month than France. www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_price_rankings?itemId=105In aggregate, it would appear that our wages and cost of living are, within the margin of error, pretty much the same as our nearest comparable EU neighbours - France & Germany. So the idea that we are somehow worse off for leaving their club is risible. As is the notion that we would somehow magically become better off should we rejoin it.
Indeed, if you want to look for a European country that is substantially better off it would be Switzerland. But of course they're not in the EU either.
So your assertion that most are worse off, let alone substantially so, due to leaving the EU simply isn't borne out by the facts. Even you must know that that is utterly economically illiterate. Pretty much all economists agree that the economy is now substantially smaller than it would have been had we not left. An article has been posted above. There are loads more all over the internet if you want to be objective. On a more positive note we do now have a trade deal with Brunei….. You are still missing the point it is not what has happened that is the measure it is what can happen that is important. With a largely useless, meek and clueless government and an even worse opposition it is surprising we are doing so well. The anti Brexit campaign has been going on since the result was declared with all the attendant propaganda and wide ranging support from the Europhile elite. The important point is though that what we are now capable of in terms of being alone in the world so to speak. Pretty much all economists agreed that there was no financial crash looming in 2007-2008. |
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Post by dodgydave on Sept 26, 2023 0:57:34 GMT
Personally speaking, my income went up £20k as a direct result of Brexit.
The general economic arguments on before / after Brexit are flawed because it's impossible to untangle them from Covid and the war in Ukraine. It is going to be another 10-15 years before we know how well it has worked, and nobody is going to seriously think about rejoining for the reasons below:
China is on a mission to become the world's biggest car manufacturer, which is already hurting the German economy, and it is going to get far, far worse for them. France isn't doing great either, and Spain and Italy are a mess. Germany, France and the UK were the pillars of the EU... all the other economies were virtually irrelevant... no wonder they are muting a multi-tier EU. The EU is a protection racket, which is increasingly not going to work in a global world. Add to that the pressure of migrants, which Eastern European countries are point blank refusing to take a share of. Give it 10 years, and it will be re-purposed back towards a trade only agreement.
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Post by see2 on Sept 26, 2023 7:13:50 GMT
So a guy from a pro-EU thinktank has come up with some hypothetical data that shows the UK being worse off now we have left... Yeah..OK.. I see you are as ready as ever to post avoidance. Typical righty giggling ^^^ |
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Post by Bentley on Sept 26, 2023 10:22:00 GMT
Wages are higher because of Brexit .
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