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Post by sheepy on Oct 1, 2023 8:54:56 GMT
I was responding to you suggesting that the days of 'steam age' were gone, I just highlighted that they are big money spinners in the UK tourist economy. Then you entirely missed the point. The days of steam are gone. We love them from yesteryear. No one is building commercial steam trains, they are an entertainment. We should not be so far behind Europe who's roads are far better along with their railways. WHY ?? No you have missed the point. As usual. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 1, 2023 9:00:04 GMT
I think I may have missed it too. What is it again?
Was it something about Britain's railway infrastructure dating back to the Victorian era and therefore can't be changed?
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Post by sheepy on Oct 1, 2023 9:04:15 GMT
I think I may have missed it too. What is it again? Was it something about Britain's railway infrastructure dating back to the Victorian era and therefore can't be changed? Well for one, it has been constantly updated and no we don't use steam trains. Although the backbone of it was because the Victorians were great engineers who did build things that lasted, which in actual fact has seen many newer ideas come and go. Not all things seen as progress are actually so, the removal of manned ticket offices might well be one even. Just because the EU considers everything they do are all great ideas are not always so either. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Oct 1, 2023 9:23:46 GMT
I think I may have missed it too. What is it again? Was it something about Britain's railway infrastructure dating back to the Victorian era and therefore can't be changed? He missed the point steam railways are still alive and kicking, throughout the world, they are growing ever more popular, and my point that the cost of HS2
Delays and spiraling costs have plagued HS2 ever since Cameron and his right-hand man George Osborne, an evangelist for the project, used their early political capital to get it off the ground. Costs quickly rose from £37 billion to £50 billion — and are now said to be closer to the £80-£100 billion mark
How many years is it going to take to recoup £100 billion?
whereas ....
Steam railways are an integral part of Britain's heritage, attracting annual revenue of £400m, providing 4,000 full time jobs and a further 22,000 part-time/voluntary roles across 158 railways in the UK. The solution devised through the research project will ensure an essential part of the UK’s industrial heritage, revenue stream, and educational resource is preserved for the enjoyment of future generations.
Steam trains have paid for themselves, it's profit all the way.
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 1, 2023 9:24:56 GMT
I think the key issue is should £100 billion be spent on HS2, or more invested in the existing network to bring it closer to continental European standards. Take electrification, for example. Only around a third of UK lines are electrified and even then there's a hodge-podge of legacy systems some dating back to the 20s and 30s, making diesel power necessary for freight travelling from the Channel ports (and Felixstowe) to the North. Only just over a third of UK track is electrified in any form, compared to 55% in France and Germany, 65% in Italy, 70% in Spain and 75-80% in Benelux. The UK is in Division III, along with the Balkan countries and the Baltic republics the latter being still handicapped by Soviet-era infrastructure including Russian-gauge track.
Very poor showing for the country that invented bloody railways.
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Post by zanygame on Oct 1, 2023 9:43:59 GMT
I think the key issue is should £100 billion be spent on HS2, or more invested in the existing network to bring it closer to continental European standards. Take electrification, for example. Only around a third of UK lines are electrified and even then there's a hodge-podge of legacy systems some dating back to the 20s and 30s, making diesel power necessary for freight travelling from the Channel ports (and Felixstowe) to the North. Only just over a third of UK track is electrified in any form, compared to 55% in France and Germany, 65% in Italy, 70% in Spain and 75-80% in Benelux. The UK is in Division III, along with the Balkan countries and the Baltic republics the latter being still handicapped by Soviet-era infrastructure including Russian-gauge track.
Very poor showing for the country that invented bloody railways.
I would only add update the control systems so that we can get more trains on each track. Oh and stop awarding lines to a single train company. EG. Let virgin and Avanti operate the same journeys to create competition. |
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Post by sheepy on Oct 1, 2023 10:13:37 GMT
So on reflection, we threw billions down the drain, which could have been better spent elsewhere, who knew?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2023 10:22:16 GMT
Hidden behind all the major news headlines is THE BEE NETWORK, Manchesters new integrated transport network which is taking shape, and taking back control from the fragmented 3rd rate services provided by the private sector.
This weekend the very first "Re-regulated" Bee Buses took to the streets of Manchester, run by the Transport For Greater Manchester organisation ( TfGM ) based on the London model. A bus service owned and run by The People, for The People, and democratically accountable to The People.
Another of Margaret Thatchers disastrous policies reversed - the Tory government De-regulated bus services in the 1980s, which immediately led to a fragmentation of services, poorer services, and a race to the bottom with bus companies fighting one another for control of routes.
As Rishi Sunak has nothing to offer the country except for a Tory Party fighting one another, perhaps the best bet would be to see what the Labour Party comes up with at their conference on HS2, and see if any more detail comes on their commitment to Public Rail Services.
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 1, 2023 10:22:22 GMT
I think I may have missed it too. What is it again? Was it something about Britain's railway infrastructure dating back to the Victorian era and therefore can't be changed? Of course it can be changed - the question is whether that would be a wise use of money. |
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 1, 2023 10:23:47 GMT
This weekend the very first "Re-regulated" Bee Buses took to the streets of Manchester, run by the Transport For Greater Manchester organisation ( TfGM ) based on the London model. A bus service owned and run by The People, for The People, and democratically accountable to The People. That is not the London model.. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 1, 2023 10:24:09 GMT
A wise use compared to what?
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 1, 2023 10:28:46 GMT
whatever other demands there are on the public purse
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Post by Fairsociety on Oct 1, 2023 10:33:30 GMT
£100 billion, it's more like a gravy train, you can bet at least £10 billion+ of that money is stuffed brown envelopes, yet again like the NHS tax payers money unregulated.
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Post by sheepy on Oct 1, 2023 10:36:42 GMT
£100 billion, it's more like a gravy train, you can bet at least £10 billion+ of that money is stuffed brown envelopes, yet again like the NHS tax payers money unregulated. Except they don't use brown envelopes as the populists kicked up a stink about it, now they invent services rendered and it is legitimate. Digital payments. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 1, 2023 10:39:36 GMT
As we explored once in the old place, to build a km of high speed rail line costs several times the amount it does in France. The British taxpayer is entitled to know why.
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