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Post by zanygame on Sept 10, 2023 17:55:57 GMT
Oh for gods sake. The carbon sequestrated in fossil fuels was gathered over millions of years. We are releasing it over centuries. It takes 5 years to fill a dam. Try releasing it all in 5 hours and tell me there's no difference. That presupposes that the deluge will have any specific effect. That is unknown outside the laboratory and certainly not proven with any model. Not presupposes, we know its having an effect. Very few people still think climate change is just weather.
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Post by sandypine on Sept 10, 2023 17:59:32 GMT
That presupposes that the deluge will have any specific effect. That is unknown outside the laboratory and certainly not proven with any model. Not presupposes, we know its having an effect. Very few people still think climate change is just weather. But no one knows what the specific effect is, there are many theories but none can deal with all the factors that influence the temperature of the globe.
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Post by sheepy on Sept 10, 2023 18:05:46 GMT
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Post by zanygame on Sept 10, 2023 18:29:58 GMT
Not presupposes, we know its having an effect. Very few people still think climate change is just weather. But no one knows what the specific effect is, there are many theories but none can deal with all the factors that influence the temperature of the globe. We've discussed this endlessly. It will never be known until its too late to stop. I'll only add, some people claim we should have just let Covid run its course. They are lucky someone else took responsibility so they were alive to scoff.
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Post by sandypine on Sept 10, 2023 20:22:38 GMT
But no one knows what the specific effect is, there are many theories but none can deal with all the factors that influence the temperature of the globe. We've discussed this endlessly. It will never be known until its too late to stop. I'll only add, some people claim we should have just let Covid run its course. They are lucky someone else took responsibility so they were alive to scoff. Which is the problem, there are some alive who may well have been dead but there are some dead who may well have survived and that effect will carry on playing out in the NHS waiting lists for years to come. Whatever you do there are consequences.
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Post by dodgydave on Sept 10, 2023 23:30:49 GMT
You would have to be pretty foolish to believe we are not doing harm with our emissions. The problem is, we have one short life, so the change has to be at a pace that the majority can swallow.
The human race is going to become extinct one day, asking one generation to make their life considerably harder is just pie in the sky. While most people will care about their children / grandchildren... when you go beyond that then nobody cares because there is no tangible link... especially considering the hundreds of different ways life on Earth could end at any moment!!
We are all going to die anyway, so when scientists / politicians / climate activists issue doomsday predictions people will fight back against it. Everybody knows the temperatures have been warmer / colder, co2 has been higher / lower, sea level has been higher / lower... so people will use these as arguments to ensure they can live their best life.
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Post by steppenwolf on Sept 11, 2023 6:15:07 GMT
You would have to be pretty foolish to believe we are not doing harm with our emissions. If you're talking about CO2 then I would question that. The only known effect of CO2 on the planet is to encourage plant growth, which is beneficial because most living creatures depend on plants to live. There is also the known greenhouse effect where CO2 causes retention of heat but there's no definite empirical evidence that it causes overall heating because it also causes cooling by promoting photosynthesis. And even if it does cause overall warming there's a lot of evidence that more people die of excess cold than excess heat.
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Post by steppenwolf on Sept 11, 2023 6:28:03 GMT
But no one knows what the specific effect is, there are many theories but none can deal with all the factors that influence the temperature of the globe. We've discussed this endlessly. It will never be known until its too late to stop. I'll only add, some people claim we should have just let Covid run its course. They are lucky someone else took responsibility so they were alive to scoff. We basically have let Covid run its course. The only reason that it's now less of a problem than it was is because it's mutated into a less lethal form. That was pure luck. In particular it doesn't attack the lungs now. The vaccines don't work - just as the vaccines against the other corona virus (the cold) never worked and have been abandoned. And the interventions to attempt to control the virus caused more damage than if we'd done nothing. BTW, you most certainly did claim that CO2 didn't promote plant growth. But it would take too long to find it. Your arguments are notable for their total inconsistency.
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Post by zanygame on Sept 11, 2023 6:39:57 GMT
You would have to be pretty foolish to believe we are not doing harm with our emissions. The problem is, we have one short life, so the change has to be at a pace that the majority can swallow. The human race is going to become extinct one day, asking one generation to make their life considerably harder is just pie in the sky. While most people will care about their children / grandchildren... when you go beyond that then nobody cares because there is no tangible link... especially considering the hundreds of different ways life on Earth could end at any moment!! We are all going to die anyway, so when scientists / politicians / climate activists issue doomsday predictions people will fight back against it. Everybody knows the temperatures have been warmer / colder, co2 has been higher / lower, sea level has been higher / lower... so people will use these as arguments to ensure they can live their best life. I disagree. Human history is full of cases of one generation sacrificing their lot to help future ones. And massive help given to peoples they have no connection to. Its only now the older generation have lost the ability to care, who go yer yer, so what, I don't care, its not going to effect me. That's why this country is so shite, not because of politicians, but because we would rather have two cars and three holidays than pay a bit more to sort things out. Greed is the new god, with any excuse for it now acceptable, blame government waste, blame feckless people. Just enough veneer that I can not see my guilt.
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Post by zanygame on Sept 11, 2023 6:42:23 GMT
We've discussed this endlessly. It will never be known until its too late to stop. I'll only add, some people claim we should have just let Covid run its course. They are lucky someone else took responsibility so they were alive to scoff. We basically have let Covid run its course. The only reason that it's now less of a problem than it was is because it's mutated into a less lethal form. That was pure luck. In particular it doesn't attack the lungs now. The vaccines don't work - just as the vaccines against the other corona virus (the cold) never worked and have been abandoned. And the interventions to attempt to control the virus caused more damage than if we'd done nothing. BTW, you most certainly did claim that CO2 didn't promote plant growth. But it would take too long to find it. Your arguments are notable for their total inconsistency. What are you on about? We tried to stopped the spread while we developed a vaccine. Can't be bothered to address this more its so ridiculous.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2023 6:56:33 GMT
We basically have let Covid run its course. The only reason that it's now less of a problem than it was is because it's mutated into a less lethal form. That was pure luck. In particular it doesn't attack the lungs now. The vaccines don't work - just as the vaccines against the other corona virus (the cold) never worked and have been abandoned. And the interventions to attempt to control the virus caused more damage than if we'd done nothing. BTW, you most certainly did claim that CO2 didn't promote plant growth. But it would take too long to find it. Your arguments are notable for their total inconsistency. What are you on about? We tried to stopped the spread while we developed a vaccine. Can't be bothered to address this more its so ridiculous. The lock downs was mostly about social engineering than anything else. The claim was to slow down the spread, to form orderly queues and save the NHS.
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Post by steppenwolf on Sept 11, 2023 13:20:38 GMT
We basically have let Covid run its course. The only reason that it's now less of a problem than it was is because it's mutated into a less lethal form. That was pure luck. In particular it doesn't attack the lungs now. The vaccines don't work - just as the vaccines against the other corona virus (the cold) never worked and have been abandoned. And the interventions to attempt to control the virus caused more damage than if we'd done nothing. BTW, you most certainly did claim that CO2 didn't promote plant growth. But it would take too long to find it. Your arguments are notable for their total inconsistency. What are you on about? We tried to stopped the spread while we developed a vaccine. Can't be bothered to address this more its so ridiculous. Your problem is that you never learn Zany - even when history gives you a good lesson you just either ignore it or rewrite history. What happened was that the lockdowns were imposed because of the massively exaggerated predictions of the govt models (done by the serial charlatan Neil Ferguson). He predicted that the NHS would be overwhelmed by over 250,000 seriously ill patients, but the predictions were completely wrong - as can be seen in countries where there weren't lockdowns. What the lockdowns actually did was to save the lives of a few (mainly elderly) people at the expense of partially shutting down the NHS which has left a legacy of many patients who never got the treatment they needed for non-Covid illnesses. And it came at a huge cost also because of furlough so it has broken the economy - which will lead to more deaths in future because of poverty. And the vaccines do NOT work. FFS that's completely obvious from the fact that people carry on getting the disease after several vaccinations. That's why they've basically given up on a cold vaccine - they don't work. I've had 4 vaccines so far and I won't have any more because I know they don't work - and there's a risk with every vaccination which has to be taken into account. I think most people are better off catching Covid than having the vaccine. And it will save the NHS vast amounts of money. You just can't think for yourself Zany.
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Post by bancroft on Sept 11, 2023 13:59:31 GMT
steppenwolf don't forget retail and service SMEs trying to stay afloat during two years of lockdowns.
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Post by Orac on Sept 11, 2023 15:07:36 GMT
But no one knows what the specific effect is, there are many theories but none can deal with all the factors that influence the temperature of the globe. We've discussed this endlessly. It will never be known until its too late to stop. This is your way of setting the dial at infinity You just walked out of the arena of a decision that can be made rationally. To make a rational decision, you have to balance one thing against another...(ie you must know something about relative costs) I'm reminded of those Jehovah witnesses who ended up selling their family home and giving all the money to charity.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Sept 11, 2023 17:11:17 GMT
You would have to be pretty foolish to believe we are not doing harm with our emissions. The problem is, we have one short life, so the change has to be at a pace that the majority can swallow. The human race is going to become extinct one day, asking one generation to make their life considerably harder is just pie in the sky. While most people will care about their children / grandchildren... when you go beyond that then nobody cares because there is no tangible link... especially considering the hundreds of different ways life on Earth could end at any moment!! We are all going to die anyway, so when scientists / politicians / climate activists issue doomsday predictions people will fight back against it. Everybody knows the temperatures have been warmer / colder, co2 has been higher / lower, sea level has been higher / lower... so people will use these as arguments to ensure they can live their best life. Well quite.
Thing is, the Earth is doomed anyway regardless of anything we do.
Ultimately, the Earth has no future. So, even if the evironmentalists were right (hell, if they even had a consensus) they would still be irrelevant.
It's bunk.
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