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Post by Vinny on Aug 31, 2023 8:38:15 GMT
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Post by sandypine on Aug 31, 2023 15:00:00 GMT
Which country does not have a disgraceful record of slave owning and trading? I would think they are few and far between. Wilberforce did the right thing here but most other countries did not follow suit and had to be forced and coerced into banning the trade. In Africa Timbuctoo was a centre for slave trading and transporting for centuries that no white man ever visited until about the 1830s. All the large African Empires were founded on and perpetuated by slavery of others. |
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Post by Ripley on Aug 31, 2023 15:44:31 GMT
Which country does not have a disgraceful record of slave owning and trading? I would think they are few and far between. Wilberforce did the right thing here but most other countries did not follow suit and had to be forced and coerced into banning the trade. In Africa Timbuctoo was a centre for slave trading and transporting for centuries that no white man ever visited until about the 1830s. All the large African Empires were founded on and perpetuated by slavery of others. If you look far back enough, most civilisations practised slavery. It occurred all over the ancient world, in the Akkadian empire, Assyria, Persia, Babylonia, ancient Egypt, ancient Israel, ancient Greece, ancient China, ancient India, the Roman Empire, the Arab Islamic Caliphate and Sultanate, Nubia and the pre-Columbian civilisations of the Americas. Slavery is mentioned as an established practice in the Mesopotamian Code of Hammurabi (c. 1750 BC), but evidence of the practice even predates the written records. It can be traced back as far as 11,000 years ago to the invention of agriculture during the Neolithic Revolution. Agriculture created economic surpluses which created population explosion, and those were the conditions that made mass slavery come about. In the ancient world, slavery was linked to criminal punishment, debt-repayment (indentured-servitude), children and prisoners of war, and some of these forms of slavery persist in some way or another even today. |
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Post by Vinny on Aug 31, 2023 15:50:25 GMT
Which country does not have a disgraceful record of slave owning and trading? I would think they are few and far between. Wilberforce did the right thing here but most other countries did not follow suit and had to be forced and coerced into banning the trade. In Africa Timbuctoo was a centre for slave trading and transporting for centuries that no white man ever visited until about the 1830s. All the large African Empires were founded on and perpetuated by slavery of others. It isn't a name and shame thread, it's just a bit of history. Scottish slave trading ended with Wilberforce and the emancipation act. African and Arabic slave trading continued into the 20th Century. |
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Post by sandypine on Aug 31, 2023 15:52:26 GMT
Which country does not have a disgraceful record of slave owning and trading? I would think they are few and far between. Wilberforce did the right thing here but most other countries did not follow suit and had to be forced and coerced into banning the trade. In Africa Timbuctoo was a centre for slave trading and transporting for centuries that no white man ever visited until about the 1830s. All the large African Empires were founded on and perpetuated by slavery of others. If you look far back enough, most civilisations practised slavery. It occurred all over the ancient world, in the Akkadian empire, Assyria, Persia, Babylonia, ancient Egypt, ancient Israel, ancient Greece, ancient China, ancient India, the Roman Empire, the Arab Islamic Caliphate and Sultanate, Nubia and the pre-Columbian civilisations of the Americas. Slavery is mentioned as an established practice in the Mesopotamian Code of Hammurabi (c. 1750 BC), but evidence of the practice even predates the written records. It can be traced back as far as 11,000 years ago to the invention of agriculture during the Neolithic Revolution. Agriculture created economic surpluses which created population explosion, and those were the conditions that made mass slavery come about. In the ancient world, slavery was linked to criminal punishment, debt-repayment (indentured-servitude), children and prisoners of war, and some of these forms of slavery persist in some way or another even today. And of course it is only the UK that is singled out for all the angst, hand wringing and claims of reparations. The grand civilisations of North Africa were all serviced by slaves. |
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Post by sandypine on Aug 31, 2023 15:54:19 GMT
Which country does not have a disgraceful record of slave owning and trading? I would think they are few and far between. Wilberforce did the right thing here but most other countries did not follow suit and had to be forced and coerced into banning the trade. In Africa Timbuctoo was a centre for slave trading and transporting for centuries that no white man ever visited until about the 1830s. All the large African Empires were founded on and perpetuated by slavery of others. It isn't a name and shame thread, it's just a bit of history. Scottish slave trading ended with Wilberforce and the emancipation act. African and Arabic slave trading continued into the 20th Century. There are many bits of history, choosing which one to highlight seems rarely to be a random act. |
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Post by Ripley on Aug 31, 2023 16:17:26 GMT
If you look far back enough, most civilisations practised slavery. It occurred all over the ancient world, in the Akkadian empire, Assyria, Persia, Babylonia, ancient Egypt, ancient Israel, ancient Greece, ancient China, ancient India, the Roman Empire, the Arab Islamic Caliphate and Sultanate, Nubia and the pre-Columbian civilisations of the Americas. Slavery is mentioned as an established practice in the Mesopotamian Code of Hammurabi (c. 1750 BC), but evidence of the practice even predates the written records. It can be traced back as far as 11,000 years ago to the invention of agriculture during the Neolithic Revolution. Agriculture created economic surpluses which created population explosion, and those were the conditions that made mass slavery come about. In the ancient world, slavery was linked to criminal punishment, debt-repayment (indentured-servitude), children and prisoners of war, and some of these forms of slavery persist in some way or another even today. And of course it is only the UK that is singled out for all the angst, hand wringing and claims of reparations. The grand civilisations of North Africa were all serviced by slaves. Not only the UK. Reuters reports that there have been reparations claims from the US for half a century already. www.reuters.com/world/international-campaign-slavery-reparations-2021-12-01/ |
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Post by sandypine on Aug 31, 2023 17:06:50 GMT
Yes indeed I should have been more accurate. The calls for reparations and some form of penance is largely saved for the white dominated countries of the world. |
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Post by Ripley on Aug 31, 2023 18:46:22 GMT
Yes indeed I should have been more accurate. The calls for reparations and some form of penance is largely saved for the white dominated countries of the world. It's kind of a slippery slope. If Africans Americans are due payment for slavery and subjugation, what about Native Americans, who lost a whole continent? What about Mexican-Americans, who were deprived by the Mexican-American war of the right to migrate into half their former country? Japanese Americans, interned during World War II? Chinese Americans, the victims of coolie labor and the Oriental Exclusion Acts? www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/06/the-impossibility-of-reparations/372041/Where will it end? Should we claim reparation from Norway for sending the Vikings? Should Italy owe reparations for the acts of the Romans? |
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Post by sandypine on Aug 31, 2023 20:23:48 GMT
Yes indeed I should have been more accurate. The calls for reparations and some form of penance is largely saved for the white dominated countries of the world. It's kind of a slippery slope. If Africans Americans are due payment for slavery and subjugation, what about Native Americans, who lost a whole continent? What about Mexican-Americans, who were deprived by the Mexican-American war of the right to migrate into half their former country? Japanese Americans, interned during World War II? Chinese Americans, the victims of coolie labor and the Oriental Exclusion Acts? www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/06/the-impossibility-of-reparations/372041/Where will it end? Should we claim reparation from Norway for sending the Vikings? Should Italy owe reparations for the acts of the Romans? The Norway point is a sound one as they took slaves and concubines from Britain at will for several centuries. In fact DNA research in Iceland shows the male genes generally descend from Scandinavia whereas the female genes from Britain. It is postulated that male Viking settlers took with them female slaves from Britain. |
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Post by Ripley on Aug 31, 2023 21:00:08 GMT
It's kind of a slippery slope. If Africans Americans are due payment for slavery and subjugation, what about Native Americans, who lost a whole continent? What about Mexican-Americans, who were deprived by the Mexican-American war of the right to migrate into half their former country? Japanese Americans, interned during World War II? Chinese Americans, the victims of coolie labor and the Oriental Exclusion Acts? www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/06/the-impossibility-of-reparations/372041/Where will it end? Should we claim reparation from Norway for sending the Vikings? Should Italy owe reparations for the acts of the Romans? The Norway point is a sound one as they took slaves and concubines from Britain at will for several centuries. In fact DNA research in Iceland shows the male genes generally descend from Scandinavia whereas the female genes from Britain. It is postulated that male Viking settlers took with them female slaves from Britain. I’ve read that 20-40% of the first settlers of Iceland were likely slaves from Scotland and Ireland, but a historical 12th century work on Iceland’s early history (the Íslendingabók of Ari Thorgilsson) claims that the Norse settlers encountered Gaelic monks from a Hiberno-Scottish mission when they arrived in Iceland. There is some archaeological evidence for a monastic settlement from Ireland at Kverkarhellir cave, on the Seljaland farm in southern Iceland. Sediment deposits indicate people lived there around 800, and crosses consistent with the Hiberno-Scottish style were carved in the wall of a nearby cave. Of course, the monks probably didn't procreate. ~ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_of_Iceland |
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Post by sandypine on Aug 31, 2023 21:48:13 GMT
The Norway point is a sound one as they took slaves and concubines from Britain at will for several centuries. In fact DNA research in Iceland shows the male genes generally descend from Scandinavia whereas the female genes from Britain. It is postulated that male Viking settlers took with them female slaves from Britain. I’ve read that 20-40% of the first settlers of Iceland were likely slaves from Scotland and Ireland, but a historical 12th century work on Iceland’s early history (the Íslendingabók of Ari Thorgilsson) claims that the Norse settlers encountered Gaelic monks from a Hiberno-Scottish mission when they arrived in Iceland. There is some archaeological evidence for a monastic settlement from Ireland at Kverkarhellir cave, on the Seljaland farm in southern Iceland. Sediment deposits indicate people lived there around 800, and crosses consistent with the Hiberno-Scottish style were carved in the wall of a nearby cave. Of course, the monks probably didn't procreate. ~ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_of_IcelandAnd of course if they did the male DNA markers would show Scots/Irish ancestry. The problem is it is the Mitochondrial DNA that is the female marker that is British Isles. Or at least that is the way I understand it. |
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Post by Ripley on Aug 31, 2023 22:17:59 GMT
I’ve read that 20-40% of the first settlers of Iceland were likely slaves from Scotland and Ireland, but a historical 12th century work on Iceland’s early history (the Íslendingabók of Ari Thorgilsson) claims that the Norse settlers encountered Gaelic monks from a Hiberno-Scottish mission when they arrived in Iceland. There is some archaeological evidence for a monastic settlement from Ireland at Kverkarhellir cave, on the Seljaland farm in southern Iceland. Sediment deposits indicate people lived there around 800, and crosses consistent with the Hiberno-Scottish style were carved in the wall of a nearby cave. Of course, the monks probably didn't procreate. ~ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_of_IcelandAnd of course if they did the male DNA markers would show Scots/Irish ancestry. The problem is it is the Mitochondrial DNA that is the female marker that is British Isles. Or at least that is the way I understand it. Right. The monks could very well have been there first, but since they didn't procreate, there's no DNA evidence of them. The Celtic DNA evidence is female. It's interesting that about 30% of Icelanders have given DNA samples. I wondered what percentage of Britons have Viking DNA, and found this: "A study published in 2020, which used ancient DNA from across the Viking world in addition to modern data, noted that ancient samples from Denmark showed similarities to samples from both modern Denmark and modern England. Whilst most of this similarity was attributed to the earlier settlement of the Anglo-Saxons, the authors of the study noted that British populations also carried a small amount of "Swedish-like" ancestry that was present in the Danish Vikings but unlikely to have been associated with the Anglo-Saxons. From this, it was calculated that the modern English population has approximately 6% Danish Viking ancestry, with Scottish and Irish populations having up to 16%. Additionally, populations from all areas of Britain and Ireland were found to have 3–4% Norwegian Viking ancestry." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_the_British_Isles |
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Post by Red Rackham on Sept 2, 2023 0:02:34 GMT
The slave trade is an inevitable if regrettable part of human history. Slavery has happened ever since man walked upright and it continues to this day. And you can quote me on this one, as long as humans inhabit this planet, slavery will continue.
People who rubbish England or Great Briton and say we are responsible for the slave trade are left wing and generally ignorant. They have absolutely no concept of history. I know a little about it, I wont bore you suffice to say our involvement in the slave trade is less than a pinprick in history.
The Islamic Republic of Mauritania openly used slaves until 1981 when it was 'officially' banned but everyone at the UN, the WEF the EU and governments around the world know that slavery in the 21st century is a part of their economy. Slavery is normal in many African countries today as it is across the middle east and Asia.
Yet a minority of ignorant clueless lefties insist England or Great Briton should be penalised for slavery, I could go into it but I cant be bothered. I will say to ignorant lefties, rather than cancelling history, try reading it.
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Post by johnofgwent on Sept 2, 2023 17:44:40 GMT
Yes indeed I should have been more accurate. The calls for reparations and some form of penance is largely saved for the white dominated countries of the world. It's kind of a slippery slope. If Africans Americans are due payment for slavery and subjugation, what about Native Americans, who lost a whole continent? What about Mexican-Americans, who were deprived by the Mexican-American war of the right to migrate into half their former country? Japanese Americans, interned during World War II? Chinese Americans, the victims of coolie labor and the Oriental Exclusion Acts? www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/06/the-impossibility-of-reparations/372041/Where will it end? Should we claim reparation from Norway for sending the Vikings? Should Italy owe reparations for the acts of the Romans? Ah well, as far as the vikings were concerned, we did a deal with Alfred. We drew a line north of the wash to wales (ish) and said ‘we are having this bit this side of this line, you can have that bit that side. If we get trouble with those buggers in the north, we might ask for some help, if you get any grief from those buggers across the channel give us a shout, and as for them scum west of the Severn Sea, well they’re fair game for either if us OK And the French gave the English trouble so we went over, sorted them, then liked the place, sent word up north to come on down tbe wine and women were delightful, and about 400 years later came over as military consultants to William the Bastard… |
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