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Post by Vinny on Aug 21, 2023 8:58:46 GMT
I cannot begin to imagine how awful it must be, to have loved someone from infancy, only for the child to grow up into a monster.
To be filled with questions about what they did wrong as parents.
To have breast fed and then spoon fed, someone who became evil.
I have no sympathy for rapists, killers and other evil in our prisons, but where parents have committed no crimes, who loved and cared for someone who has caused so much harm, do they get the support they need?
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Post by wapentake on Aug 21, 2023 9:06:08 GMT
I cannot begin to imagine how awful it must be, to have loved someone from infancy, only for the child to grow up into a monster. To be filled with questions about what they did wrong as parents. To have breast fed and then spoon fed, someone who became evil. I have no sympathy for rapists, killers and other evil in our prisons, but where parents have committed no crimes, who loved and cared for someone who has caused so much harm, do they get the support they need? Probably not Vinny,the mob mentality too often kicks in and they pay a heavy price |
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Post by Orac on Aug 21, 2023 9:17:03 GMT
It has to be the most devastating, sharpest and personality destroying shock imaginable.
I sometimes watch police interview / interrogation videos.
One was quite moving. A 15 year old girl was being questioned by the police over the disappearance of a 5 year old girl. The police suspected this young lady and the mother attended the interview with no idea that her daughter was suspect. As far as she was concerned, the police just wanted her take.
Over a period of an hour or so, that included the young lady explaining why she was digging 'grave sized' holes in a nearby woods and her mother adding to the notion that this was just childish gamery, it became gradually clear that something more was going on. The young woman's story was inconsistent, and inconsistent in a way that looked deliberate.
When the realisation finally breaks on the mother, she has to be helped out of the room - she can't walk. She can be heard screaming and weeping in the corridor outside.
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Post by walterpaisley on Aug 21, 2023 9:54:20 GMT
An old friend's son - of whom I was also a regular drinking buddy- many years ago, was convicted of assault, online grooming, and downloading child abuse images.
He'd recently graduated (something esoteric involving high-end math), and had started work at a top bank.
His mum leaned hard into "denial" after the arrest, to the extent of anger at those (who were, admittedly, almost all of us in her friendship circle) who didn't automatically accept his innocence.
By the time of the trial - during which he put his victims through the sheer cruelty of being cross-examined - everyone (Even his mother) knew the police had done the world a favour by getting him off the street.
I lost touch with his mum years ago,as did most of her friends. Very much her doing. She became gradually more reclusive, and eventually stopped returning calls.
Things may have changed, but the last I heard (which would be a decade ago), she hadn't had contact with him since his conviction. He went on to reoffend, years later.
So sad. He destroyed other lives, and in doing so, blew up his own family into the bargain.
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Post by wapentake on Aug 21, 2023 10:16:17 GMT
An old friend's son - of whom I was also a regular drinking buddy- many years ago, was convicted of assault, online grooming, and downloading child abuse images. He'd recently graduated (something esoteric involving high-end math), and had started work at a top bank. His mum leaned hard into "denial" after the arrest, to the extent of anger at those (who were, admittedly, almost all of us in her friendship circle) who didn't automatically accept his innocence. By the time of the trial - during which he put his victims through the sheer cruelty of being cross-examined - everyone (Even his mother) knew the police had done the world a favour by getting him off the street. I lost touch with his mum years ago,as did most of her friends. Very much her doing. She became gradually more reclusive, and eventually stopped returning calls. Things may have changed, but the last I heard (which would be a decade ago), she hadn't had contact with him since his conviction. He went on to reoffend, years later. So sad. He destroyed other lives, and in doing so, blew up his own family into the bargain. Yes it destroys people and just as much when it turns out they’d done nothing wrong at all. |
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Post by seniorcitizen007 on Aug 23, 2023 17:57:23 GMT
I knew someone who claimed that his "desire to be a serial killer" began when he watched a film about the Mafia when he was 15. He eventually killed a girl who had absconded from a psychiatric ward and was staying with him. His plan was that someone who occasionally stayed at his place, who was known to be aggressive when under the influence of drink, who had a key to his flat, would get the blame. After throttling the girl with an electric cord he mutilated her body. The next morning he phoned the police ... but during the call he freaked out and when the police arrived he was "laughing like a lunatic" and admitted he'd killed her. He was remanded for psychiatric reports in Rampton ... where he met a "Hell's Angel" serial killer ... and his desire to be a serial killer again became forefront in his mind. He was found guilty of manslaughter with diminished responsibility and given a life sentence. Some years later his solicitor got him a six year tariff ... and he began making phone calls from the prison seeking to find accomplices for his planned serial killer spree when he was released. I informed the prison he was in about this. Twenty years later, after nobody had heard from him for many years, he phoned a former girlfriend from an open prison where he was awaiting release and asked her if she was still interested in helping him become a serial killer. She didn't tell me about this until after his release.
He's out there somewhere I think... a middle-aged man who wants to be a serial killer.
I met his father during the trial. He had been repeatedly warning the authorities that his son was dangerous... but a psychiatrist had dismissed his "urge to kill" as an "aberration".
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Aug 23, 2023 20:09:07 GMT
My sympathies are with the partners and children of offenders who are often totally innocent victims too.
As an example, look at Wayne Couzens' family who have done absolutely nothing to deserve their lives being turned upside down, and probably blighted forever.
But when it comes to parents, well... They're often the cause of their child's criminality. Either criminals themselves or abusers or otherwise just shit parents.
Not saying that's the case with Letby (although it's early days yet) but it so often is.
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Post by Orac on Aug 23, 2023 21:18:56 GMT
I met his father during the trial. He had been repeatedly warning the authorities that his son was dangerous... but a psychiatrist had dismissed his "urge to kill" as an "aberration". All serial killers are aberrant. What sort of halfwit was this psychiatrist? |
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Post by seniorcitizen007 on Aug 25, 2023 20:05:34 GMT
A doctor once said that he had observed that there are two primary responses by mothers to their new-born babies. Some will immediately focus on the child's head whilst others will look at the other end. When I asked my sister-in-law, who had two children, if she planned to have any more she became "upset" and said that babies were "dirty and disgusting".
Later, during my visit, her toddler daughter, who had been sitting on her pot, stood up, looked at me with a smile on her face, pointed to the pot and said: "Tea". Her mother fled the room.
How to respond if your child engages in a "pottie war" with another child (or children).
You enter a room where the children are ... to find that they have been throwing the contents of their pots at each other. Just clean up the mess, acting as if nothing has happened. They won't do it again.
Then there is the problem of the "terrible twos". One day little Johnny, who had been so obedient to his mother's wishes, is told by her to put his coat on because they're going out. Johnny plonks himself on the floor and says "No!" Things can dramatically escalate if the parents aren't clued up about what is gong on with their child.
I once read that if parents are over-affectionate towards each other this can lead to their child(ren) growing up maladjusted.
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Post by see2 on Aug 26, 2023 11:26:56 GMT
Some years ago I did some research into the the suspected 'Evil Gene'.
One piece of research I read about claimed the some DNA, not carried by everyone, did carry the possibility of violence but whether the owner became violent or not depended upon the Nurture the owner received.
Reminded me a bit of some breeds of dog.
A new born child, with the exception of certain reactions like breathing, heartbeat, nerves, an innate wariness of danger etcetera, are a blank sheet. They will learn good and bad, they will learn or fail to learn self respect and self confidence, they will learn all the feeling reactions they ever own. Emotional feelings are learnt.
Consider the fact that the thinking brain cannot feel anything, it can only recognise feelings that are taking place outside of the brain. Emotional feelings are the product of sensory experiences held in the Sensory System. These sensory experiences will be triggered off by external circumstances.
It seems to me that too many parents do not understand the fact that all children are sensory beings and learning the world through their sensory system up to around the age of two. The thinking brain isn't formed until around the age of two years old.
I would not just blame parents for the wrongs done by their offspring, mainly because it seems that most parents do not understand the emotional / mental needs (not wants) of the child, and can damage the emotional wellbeing of the child without knowing they are doing it.
One obvious problem I became aware of over the years is that a parent can love their child, even be prepared to die for their child, but the only way their child will ever get an insight into that love is through their sensory system --- words do not do it.
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Post by seniorcitizen007 on Aug 27, 2023 23:32:28 GMT
Many parents don't understand that it takes a child a while to understand what "No" means. Telling a child not to do something can register as an encouragement. I've known mothers who get annoyed at their 12 month old offspring who don't stop doing something they've been told not to do. Often the child repeats the action immediately after being told not to do it. How does one teach a child what "No" means?
I once saw a mother get annoyed that her infant son was playing with something he shouldn't have. To the child's mind his mother was upset by the thing he was playing with ... so he picked it up and threw it across the room ... then looked at her. He was really alarmed when she "went for him".
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Post by see2 on Aug 28, 2023 6:52:55 GMT
Many parents don't understand that it takes a child a while to understand what "No" means. Telling a child not to do something can register as an encouragement. I've known mothers who get annoyed at their 12 month old offspring who don't stop doing something they've been told not to do. Often the child repeats the action immediately after being told not to do it. How does one teach a child what "No" means? I once saw a mother get annoyed that her infant son was playing with something he shouldn't have. To the child's mind his mother was upset by the thing he was playing with ... so he picked it up and threw it across the room ... then looked at her. He was really alarmed when she "went for him". First of all a 12 month old baby is a totally sensory being. It has no logic with which to deal with the world so it can only be dealt with through its sensory system. I am no expert on dealing with the under two's but I am a firm believer in the fact that the vast majority of feelings and reactions are learnt. A possible answer to why the above problem exists is, that when the child first did what became an annoyance to the parent the parent smiled and hugged the child saying something like 'you are a naughty child'. The words would mean nothing to the child but the hug and the friendly tone of voice would be immediately entered into the feel good area of the child's sensory system. The repeating of the action by the child could be the child's sensory system looking for a smile and a hug. You might be spot on with your second part of your post. |
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