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Post by thomas on Aug 21, 2023 7:23:36 GMT
we voted to remain in a uk that was in the EU. wonder why you keep forgetting that fact.?
did you ? Well that’s strange because i didn’t see the words ‘while we remain in the EU’ as a clause on the ballot paper. Scotland voted to remain part of the UK end of You can pretend all day long john that we scots werent told that voting no means we stay in the EU in 2014 ,or that it was a key plank of the unionist campaign , and no one outside of your own brit nat brexiter bubble will take you serious. We had the leader of the unionist conservatives telling us to vote no to stay in the EU..
Then two years later , she was once again telling us what a disaster it would be to leave the EU...
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Post by thomas on Aug 21, 2023 7:36:15 GMT
Anyway, i don’t really accept much of the postulations in the OP Britain’s identity IS down the toilet but that’s more to do with Blair empowering these feudal warlords north and west of london and bending over and taking it up the shitter from Northern Ireland than anything else. We gave up being a superpower in the 1960s if not earlier The other factor is our cities are a globalised piss pot in which you rarely hear an english voice because the invaders who want to see the Royal Standard over Buck House torn down and replaced with a black and white one are the only ones mouthing off down their phones in the street. I might agree Charlie Wing Nuts has hardly helped the situation but he is not the issue and neither is Brexit. And as for this jerk saying Plaid are gaining popularity… they are responsible for the 50mph on the motorways and 20 everywhere else and i’m surprised more aren’t being found face down in gutters. i didnt think you would take the op serious john , as it goes against the fantasy you believe in.
in the history of mankind , and we can go back some 12000 years to the last ice age in these islands , there has never been a single nation or identity in these islands called britian prior to events some 400 years ago. This mythical britian started breaking up a century ago john , when the republic of ireland left , so the idea all was rosey prior to tony blair is of course another of your fantasies up there with monmouth is english.
Are you telling me if you go up to caernarfon you demand the locals speak in the forieign english language rather than the native welsh?
I dont think the article claims charlie is the problem. His mothers death is alleged as a sign of the end days of the old empire and splitting up of the yookay , the passing of a milestone as i read it. Brexit is a symtom of the end of the uk not the cause of it , i fully agree.
i thought it was the labour government responsible? From reports support for welsh independence is on the up , and the welsh like the rest of us are extremely dissatsfied with the anglo tory government running wales reserved matters , and old british men and thier misty eyed romanticism of empire.
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Post by johnofgwent on Aug 21, 2023 7:39:48 GMT
Well that’s because voting YES would, as Barosso, one of the five presidents at the time said - and which Salmand the Lying Scotsman denied it it would - mean BOTH Scotland AND the Rump of the UK being ejected from the EU and treated as third party countries requiring the invocation of Article 51 or 53 or whicheverthefuck was the opposite to the one we tried to use in 2016.
And i remind you AGAIN the UK was profoundly more eurosceptic in 2014 and indeed i was hoping for a YES vote because i believec what Barosso said and hoped it would come about.
But it’s no good you trying to drag up what those opposed to your view said. Because those committed to delivering what you wanted assured us that those words were bullshit, didn’t he. Or are yiu now admitting he had a train named after him but with an extra F.
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Post by thomas on Aug 21, 2023 7:48:23 GMT
Thanks for the input. Its a debating forum , talk is what we do. I know talk is what you do. The SNP is almost a 100 years old and all they do is talk about leaving - wake me up when something happens.. thats rich coming from a tory brexiter. 7 years on , and the uk still hasnt fully left the EU , never mind any vision of the return of empire.
Wake me up when rishis boat plan starts working , or you have someone on board the 1.6 billion barge .
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Post by thomas on Aug 21, 2023 7:50:57 GMT
Well that’s because voting YES would, as Barosso, one of the five presidents at the time said - and which Salmand the Lying Scotsman denied it it would - mean BOTH Scotland AND the Rump of the UK being ejected from the EU and treated as third party countries requiring the invocation of Article 51 or 53 or whicheverthefuck was the opposite to the one we tried to use in 2016. And i remind you AGAIN the UK was profoundly more eurosceptic in 2014 and indeed i was hoping for a YES vote because i believec what Barosso said and hoped it would come about. But it’s no good you trying to drag up what those opposed to your view said. Because those committed to delivering what you wanted assured us that those words were bullshit, didn’t he. Or are yiu now admitting he had a train named after him but with an extra F. Irrelevant. You denied by implication that remaining in the eu was a key part of the argument that swayed scots in 2014 , now you agree with me that it was. 
So now a key plank of the 2014 campaign has been undermined by tory brexiters , it follows scotland should have a vote to see if we want to remain in brexit uk , or leave and join EFTA in three months while our application for full eu memebrship is processed.
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Post by thomas on Aug 21, 2023 7:52:57 GMT
But it’s no good you trying to drag up what those opposed to your view said. why is that then john? Is it becuase people like ruth davidsons words undermines the latest fantasy you are concocting about events in 2014?
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 21, 2023 9:12:54 GMT
It strikes me that the most strident criticisms of the deprecation of a British identity come from those who can't lay a legitimate claim to one of the ethnically-based national identities. What will finally kill off 'Britishness' is not Scottish independence but the resurgent English nationalism that it will arouse.
As Yasmin Alibhai-Brown complained to ultra-Snat Tom Nairn some years ago:
"[T]he larger part of me is frightened by the implications: the ease with which you give up on the modern British nation and your sanguine belief that Scottish nationalism will not necessarily produce excluding, mean and dangerous influences. The irony is that black and Asian Britons today feel more deeply about their British identity than any of the indigenous groups. Once, not that long ago, this identity represented humiliation.We had blue British passports (we kept in bank safe deposit boxes with the most precious family jewels) which since 1968 had been rendered worthless, denying us the basic rights of citizenship in this country.
We were never accepted as of this island. I am still asked every week where I come from and why I speak such good English. But in the last few years we have embraced and transformed Britishness and by doing so redefined the British identity. Now Scottish, Welsh and English nationalists want to take this away and relegate us to those lesser beings who have no ancestral connections to this land. I do not want to see cultural, racial and now postdevolution fragmentation which is likely to destroy this new emerging British identity and replace it with something simpler and sweeter where we can all pretend that the ‘other’ will never confront our own complacency. That, I fear, is where you may be taking us.”
Certainly Yazzer speaks for all those who view Britishness as a protective umbrella under which they can shelter.
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 21, 2023 9:13:34 GMT
<abbr>deleted - duplicate
</abbr>
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Aug 21, 2023 10:52:34 GMT
Just another globalist they pop up everywhere. No not really. Know your universities and you would know what we are dealing with here. Sussex University is the clue. If you are still unsure then take a day trip to Brighton and count the number of people with purple hair. |
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Post by borchester on Aug 21, 2023 11:42:31 GMT
The National?
More hysterical rubbish from a free sheet with a lower circulation than the queue for the number 13 bus along Leith Walk
The bottom line is that Humza Yousaf, Sammy the Seal etall, have bottled out of calling for a referendum this year and are sitting on their hands, hoping they don't get their dials too badly wiped in 2024. They will, but hope springs eternal
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 21, 2023 21:34:07 GMT
Looks like even the SNP are losing faith..  |
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Post by sheepy on Aug 22, 2023 6:08:57 GMT
Well dropping a case because you might upset the wrong people probably doesn't help the Monarchy, but that wasn't the point of the thread, it was the usual anti-Brexit nonsense, until the English bearing the brunt of Scottish woes get bored with it.That somehow by voting for Brexit has ruined Scottish independence and taken them out of a ruling body from Brussels is bad for their independence. Personally, I have never seen it that way, being ruled from Brussels it is neither independent or of any monetary value to Scotland in the long run, it is more about not letting the Westminster party hold the purse strings and instead Brussels, if I was thinking about being independent neither is what I was thinking would be any kind of independence, rather just a way for the SNP trying to have it both ways while they coin it in for themselves.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2023 8:37:59 GMT
But it’s no good you trying to drag up what those opposed to your view said. why is that then john? Is it becuase people like ruth davidsons words undermines the latest fantasy you are concocting about events in 2014?
Ruth Davidson's words were merely words, though. Brexit never crashed the economy as per your meme #2014 |
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Post by thomas on Aug 23, 2023 6:57:23 GMT
why is that then john? Is it becuase people like ruth davidsons words undermines the latest fantasy you are concocting about events in 2014?
Ruth Davidson's words were merely words, though. Brexit never crashed the economy as per your meme #2014 Doesnt matter. Ruth davidson , as a leader of the scottish tories , and given major public airtime in 2014 , told us that we had to vote to stay in the uk to stay in the EU. Those words and implication are a matter of public record.
John of gwent tried to imply differently .
The implications of brexit going forward as we can see are like a slow motion car crash from all reports im seeing . The point is though the EU was a key argument for nos victory in 2014 that no one can seriously deny. No amount of historical revision is going to change that.
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