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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 20, 2023 8:03:38 GMT
An article in the Observer based on FoI requests reveals that in the last two years over 3,000 migrants faced demands for advance payments in line with NHS guidelines introduced in 2017. Over 900 did not provide payment and consequently did not receive treatment. The article points out that the guidelines state that treatment should not be withheld for 'urgent or “immediately necessary” treatment'. However, according to the Observer there have been 'multiple' cases where treatment had been wrongly refused without payment. In one case, a patient diagnosed as an emergency with lung cancer was were told they would be charged upfront for treatment and then never returned for a follow-up. "This was someone who had been in the country for years but who did not have the right official migration status. A cancer diagnosis is devastating. To then be abandoned by the health service is inhumane.” In another, a Zimbabwean failed asylum seeker who suffered a stroke after being billed £100,000 for treatment and is now said to be disabled. He is the 'lead case' in the Observer's assault on the 'hostile environment' which is blamed for this 'inhumanity'. This particular case has been in the news before, further background here. So what do we say? Inhumane treatment of vulnerable people, the overwhelming majority of whom are ethnic minorities, or application of a sensible policy intended to prevent abuse of the NHS and to conserve its scarce resources for those entitled to use them?
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Post by johnofgwent on Aug 20, 2023 10:50:09 GMT
Well, my father died in a stinking side ward in a shithole hospital where the walls had not been properly made good after the previous central heating system had been removed when i worked there thirty five years earlier.
His place in a hospice had been stolen by some Nigerian health tourist who somehow managed to get herself here six months earlier and who the lib dems decreed should have his place paid for from the public purse. A kick in the teeth for a man whose father painted up the nazi bombers and fighters and who started work at 16 and never missed an NI Payment
Bottom line is the NHS is NOT free and it seems Sunak has rigged things so i have to keep paying NI past state retirement age to pay for it
If they’ve PAID NI then fair enough
If they haven’t AND a single British passport holder is in need of the bed, throw them in the street, or ward C5 at UHW which is where they left dad to die in agony.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2023 12:01:07 GMT
No person, no matter who they are, British and born here or a refugee or asylum seeker ( genuine or not ) should ever be refused urgent / critical or life saving treatment, or relief from pain.
The government needs to tread a very careful path here, because ALL doctors make the HIPPOCRATIC OATH including the following promises:
"I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug"
"I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.
I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.
I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm" ---------------------------------------------------
If someone has the money to pay, then thats fair enough, but to suggest that someone must either suffer or die because they have not got the money to pay for treatment is inhuman, and I doubt that many doctors would follow such a rule.
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 20, 2023 12:16:13 GMT
It's interesting that the Observer should showcase the Zimbabwean. He has evidently been an asylum seeker since 2009 and the Guardian reported in 2021 that he was afraid to return home because his father had been critical of Robert Mugabe.
Mugabe died in 2019.
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 20, 2023 14:43:58 GMT
No person, no matter who they are, British and born here or a refugee or asylum seeker ( genuine or not ) should ever be refused urgent / critical or life saving treatment, or relief from pain. The government needs to tread a very careful path here, because ALL doctors make the HIPPOCRATIC OATH including the following promises: "I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug" "I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick. I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.
I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm"So why do they go on strike and abandon those special obligations?
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Post by johnofgwent on Aug 31, 2023 13:58:03 GMT
No person, no matter who they are, British and born here or a refugee or asylum seeker ( genuine or not ) should ever be refused urgent / critical or life saving treatment, or relief from pain. The government needs to tread a very careful path here, because ALL doctors make the HIPPOCRATIC OATH including the following promises: "I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug" "I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick. I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure. I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm" --------------------------------------------------- If someone has the money to pay, then thats fair enough, but to suggest that someone must either suffer or die because they have not got the money to pay for treatment is inhuman, and I doubt that many doctors would follow such a rule. The manager at Slough General which received every admission from Heathrow stated the NHS position perfectly The NHS has a duty to stabilise the condition of any patient brought to it from Heathrow. Stabilise means just that, deal with any acute condition to the point they become stable. At that point there are various paths forward Those who are entitled by right of residence and contribution to NHS treatment get it, free Those whose country of residence offers to UK citizens in a similar situation in their country treatment on the same terms as their own citizens also get NHS Treatment such as would be given to UK entitled citizens, free A small number of countries have an agreement to settle bills for treatment of their citizens in the UK and they too get it, free to them For the others Those who have medical insurance will receive NHS treatment to the limit of that insurance For the rest we accept Mastercard and Visa or duscharge you I pointed out my father who paid into the system all his life was denied his rightful place in a hospice by a black woman who came here for the health benefits and got them thanks to woke lefty shits in power. I say if they’re ill in Calais let them claim asylum in Calais and throw themselves at the French Health Service. And i really don’t give a monkeys about foreigners working here who find themselves not able to claim NHS treatment because there are literally thousands of lawyers mire than happy to help black rubber boat riders fight the UK but not one of those scum had the time of day for my youngest’s GI boyfriend over here on a student visa to study IT while his parents worked on a USAF base.
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Post by johnofgwent on Aug 31, 2023 17:55:18 GMT
It's interesting that the Observer should showcase the Zimbabwean. He has evidently been an asylum seeker since 2009 and the Guardian reported in 2021 that he was afraid to return home because his father had been critical of Robert Mugabe. Mugabe died in 2019. yeah but just as the left here hound you for what you said 20 years ago, so the Marxists that destroyed Rhodesia have loud mouths and long memories.
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Post by steppenwolf on Sept 1, 2023 7:05:26 GMT
I'm quite surprised to hear that the NHS are actually refusing treatment to those who are ineligible. I thought that our doctors and nurses were so woke and left wing that they treated anyone. However it's obviously a step in the right direction. And I hope that those who are here illegally are reported to the police for deportation.
The only treatment that should be given is for those who have dangerous communicable diseases - and the NHS should seek to get payment for any treatment provided.
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