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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Aug 10, 2023 8:45:19 GMT
There is a common fallacy that if something can't be thenit does not exist or is false.
However there are some things that you can prove that they can not be known. This is known as undecidability. It's very important in the mathematical field which studies computability and complexity. Rather than looking at how to compute things, the study is on what is computable, how hard it is to compute and what can be known. This field was started by Church and Turing around the time they were working which was WW2 era.
If you want a bit of an intro to this field, have a link.
That God thing that people scream there is absolutely no proof of could in fact be undecidable. Also linked to this is Gödel's incompleteness theorem.
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Post by johnofgwent on Aug 10, 2023 10:08:20 GMT
You (well, not you personally, i mean anyone / everyone) won’t be getting any Nobel prizes for solving this. They only get awarded where the issue can be verified by experiment and observation. Hence most thought experiments in physics fail to qualify.
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Post by steppenwolf on Aug 10, 2023 11:47:59 GMT
This is just the obvious fact that "systems" are either deterministic or stochastic. Some systems can be described by deterministic equations and some can't - you need probabilistic equations. Deterministic systems tend to be large systems like the movement of the planets. In other words they're governed by classical equations (Newton or Einstein). The smaller the system gets the more it becomes stochastic (random) and the more you need quantum theory. And the more you need computers that don't work on a 0 or 1 basis but on 0 or 1 or somewhere in between.
Is that what you're talking about BvL. Spare us Wiki nonsense.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Aug 10, 2023 12:17:31 GMT
This is just the obvious fact that "systems" are either deterministic or stochastic. Some systems can be described by deterministic equations and some can't - you need probabilistic equations. Deterministic systems tend to be large systems like the movement of the planets. In other words they're governed by classical equations (Newton or Einstein). The smaller the system gets the more it becomes stochastic (random) and the more you need quantum theory. And the more you need computers that don't work on a 0 or 1 basis but on 0 or 1 or somewhere in between. Is that what you're talking about BvL. Spare us Wiki nonsense. No it is not. You are talking about physics and matters to do wit Bell's Inequality and so on. What the title refers to is a purely mathematical definition. One place it was first noted is the halting problem of the Turing Machine. You see at this time there were algebras and the like but the maths could not deal with algorithmic type systems of computation. So this is what Church and Turing worked on to develop the computer. We usually don't say much more about it, but it turns out wiki has a whole long list of undecidable problems that you might like to browse through. this is pure mathematics and a very strange world, even stranger than physics one might say.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Aug 10, 2023 12:22:48 GMT
You (well, not you personally, i mean anyone / everyone) won’t be getting any Nobel prizes for solving this. They only get awarded where the issue can be verified by experiment and observation. Hence most thought experiments in physics fail to qualify. One can not be so certain. Nobel officially does not do prizes in maths, but the other year an Italian did win it on his work on chaos theory, and he was a mathematician, so who knows. One suspects the prize might have yielded to politics bearing in mind it relates to climate modelling, but not specifically. It's difficult to say for sure where one subject ends and the other begins.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Aug 10, 2023 12:34:53 GMT
Here, this is a source of undecidability; the Berry Paradox
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Post by steppenwolf on Aug 11, 2023 11:51:09 GMT
Bollocks.
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Post by Orac on Aug 11, 2023 12:36:01 GMT
Seems to be a variation of the catalogue (index) paradox. This paradox is well documented and catalogued.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Aug 11, 2023 14:16:57 GMT
Are you talking about the dog's bollocks or just reproducing a sound a strange dog might bark?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2023 14:23:01 GMT
Here, this is a source of undecidability; the Berry Paradox one
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