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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 31, 2023 11:15:13 GMT
Originally trailed in the December 2018 white paper ‘The UK’s future skills-based immigration system, the ‘Australian-style’ points-based labour immigration system came into effect in early 2021 as freedom of movement was eliminated. Three years on we have an opportunity to kick the tyres of the ‘new’ system and make an assessment as to whether it has, or is it likely to, meet its core function of ‘creating a high-wage, high-skill, high productivity economy’. There are several distinct constituencies which have a direct interest in immigration, perhaps the most important being, besides immigrants themselves, employers. So how does the system match up to their requirements? Let’s consider the following aspects: a) Despite the ballyhoo accompanying the ‘Australian-style’ innovations, the points-based system is not really new at all except in some minor detail. It remains the same basic system as introduced by Labour in 2004, with a few tweaks. For employers this underlying continuity is a major benefit since they already know how to sponsor foreign workers and how get them through the work-permit system.
b) As a quid pro quo for ending FoM the work-permit system was liberalised and streamlined with the following key features: - no numerical cap on the number of skilled worker visas;
- abolition of the Resident Market Labour Test which had previously meant a job had to be advertised in the UK before being offered to a foreign worker;
- required skill level was reduced from degree-level (RFQ6) to A-level (FRQ3). c) Thresholm minimum salary reduced from £30k to £25.6k. For workers in ‘shortage occupations’ and workers under 26 the threshold was further reduced to £20.5k.
d) Exceptions to national payscales were allowed in education and healthcase, and health and care workers paid lower visa fees and were exempted from the NHS surcharge.
e) The Graduate employment scheme was reinstated, meaning international students could stay on for two years unsponsored and subsequently switch to the sponsored skilled worker route.
f) Skilled workers who remained in the UK and applied for settlement after five years were exempted from the minimum salary level of £38.6k required for permanent settlement.
g) EU nationals settled in the UK can apply for permanent settlement, following which they can take up any job without sponsorship. As far as employers are concerned, this is probably the most business-friendly labour immigration the UK has ever had, even more so than the Blairite reqime, and is certainly more liberal than any other western country. According to the Social Market Foundation, the system’s coverage is now broad enough to mean that over half of all jobs in the UK are now open to foreign workers. The bosses will be rubbing their hands in glee. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 1, 2023 11:46:16 GMT
Not a great deal of reaction here which leads one to believe that the immigration policies introduced by successive post-Brexit Tory regimes are meeting with general approval, if not with the country as a whole, at least with the membership of this august institution. Although I suspect only a small minority would consider themselves in the employer class. Or what used to be called the bourgeoisie.
Of course the good news for employers doesn't stop there. Recent governments have dramatically expanded the refugee channel though which have streamed hundreds of thousands of Afghans, Chinese and Ukrainians, more additions for the Reserve Army of Labour. Unlike asylum seekers, of which of course there are also tens of thousands waiting in the wings for their call to service, refugees do not require sponsorship and can start on right away.
An employer's life is looking extremely rosy these days. But what about the workers?
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Post by Fairsociety on Aug 1, 2023 12:20:06 GMT
Not a great deal of reaction here which leads one to believe that the immigration policies introduced by successive post-Brexit Tory regimes are meeting with general approval, if not with the country as a whole, at least with the membership of this august institution. Although I suspect only a small minority would consider themselves in the employer class. Or what used to be called the bourgeoisie. Of course the good news for employers doesn't stop there. Recent governments have dramatically expanded the refugee channel though which have streamed hundreds of thousands of Afghans, Chinese and Ukrainians, more additions for the Reserve Army of Labour. Unlike asylum seekers, of which of course there are also tens of thousands waiting in the wings for their call to service, refugees do not require sponsorship and can start on right away. An employer's life is looking extremely rosy these days. But what about the workers? Can't we ban pictures of Tony Blair, he sends a shiver down my spine. |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 3, 2023 14:16:06 GMT
And yet it is estimated that the UK lacks about a million employees, largely in the service and hospitality areas.
Vinny said Brits would fill them.
Meanwhile restaurants, bars, small shops and even large national chains are going out of business.
The only migrants now are, it seems illegal ones who are not allowed to work.
There is apparently more than enough work in their own countries, helping to increase their own economies.
Good ol Brexit benefits.
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Post by Bentley on Aug 3, 2023 14:19:06 GMT
Yes let’s ship in a never ending foreign underclass to do all the dirty jobs .
What could go wrong ?
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Post by Fairsociety on Aug 3, 2023 14:25:41 GMT
You have to laugh, does anyone still believe they are coming here to 'work'....hahahahahah
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 3, 2023 15:27:11 GMT
In the meantime, almost 12 million Indians take the equivalent of A-levels (HSC) each year. The pass rate is over 90% and every one of them will be eligible for sponsorship for employment in the UK.
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Post by Fairsociety on Aug 3, 2023 15:29:32 GMT
In the meantime, almost 12 million Indians take the equivalent of A-levels (HSC) each year. The pass rate is over 90% and every one of them will be eligible for sponsorship for employment in the UK. ... and let me guess ... they are marking their own papers. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Aug 3, 2023 16:24:40 GMT
Problem is with the EU in recession and suffering record unemployment and the UK as the only buoyant western European economy, we're always going to be a desirable destination for immigrants.
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 3, 2023 16:53:34 GMT
I don't know that the UK economy is any more or less buoyant than those of its closer neighbours but what is true is that the UK is the only western European country whose labour market is completely open to hundreds of millions of prospective 'skilled' migrants.
The EU in contrast is not. It's much ballyhooed 'Blue Card' has been a great disappointment to its promoters, resulting in less than 30,000 'highly qualified' non-EU migrants taking up employment each year.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2023 17:33:47 GMT
If Brits do not want certain jobs - it means they wont do them, and it does not matter what any poster states on here, you cannot make people do jobs that they are not interested in, therefore we will always look abroad for some workers, and nothing is going to change that.
Since 2004 when Eastern Europeans came here to live and work, certain companies and sectors flourished, where previously such businesses struggled through lack of labour and retention, which increased training and production costs.
A good example of this would be Heck Foods, a company which did not even exist in 2004, it now turns over £25 Million per year, but its success is partly thanks to people who do not see working in a sausage factory as either .. not good enough for them, or below their expectations.
Your Heck sausages would probably not be in your supermarket if it was not for the workers who work in the factory, British, Polish, Czech, Latvian and Estonians.
Same in many industries and many companies up and down the country, but particularly in agricultural areas where food production is a big industry, in Lincolnshire, Cambridgeshire, East and North Yorkshire.
SORRY - but many British people will not work in repetetive work, or in food production, or where it involves working with anything they consider unpleasant ... refrigerated environments, working with fish, working close to slaughterlines or nigh shifts, or where there is lots of water washing around.
Brexiteers PRETEND that we can get by without migrant labour, but we cant, the government has already increased the numbers of working visa's, the number of Working Visa's shot up by over 70% between 2019 and 2022.
The Working Visa numbers do not include the Seasonal Workers Scheme, where the government has had to accept and give in to NFU and industry demands, this year 55,000 were issued JUST for horticultural and fruit growing businesses.
The alternative is - our businesses go to the wall, and we all buy imports
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Post by Bentley on Aug 3, 2023 17:54:35 GMT
If Brits do not want certain jobs - it means they wont do them, and it does not matter what any poster states on here, you cannot make people do jobs that they are not interested in, therefore we will always look abroad for some workers, and nothing is going to change that. Since 2004 when Eastern Europeans came here to live and work, certain companies and sectors flourished, where previously such businesses struggled through lack of labour and retention, which increased training and production costs. A good example of this would be Heck Foods, a company which did not even exist in 2004, it now turns over £25 Million per year, but its success is partly thanks to people who do not see working in a sausage factory as either .. not good enough for them, or below their expectations. Your Heck sausages would probably not be in your supermarket if it was not for the workers who work in the factory, British, Polish, Czech, Latvian and Estonians. Same in many industries and many companies up and down the country, but particularly in agricultural areas where food production is a big industry, in Lincolnshire, Cambridgeshire, East and North Yorkshire. SORRY - but many British people will not work in repetetive work, or in food production, or where it involves working with anything they consider unpleasant ... refrigerated environments, working with fish, working close to slaughterlines or nigh shifts, or where there is lots of water washing around. Brexiteers PRETEND that we can get by without migrant labour, but we cant, the government has already increased the numbers of working visa's, the number of Working Visa's shot up by over 70% between 2019 and 2022. The Working Visa numbers do not include the Seasonal Workers Scheme, where the government has had to accept and give in to NFU and industry demands, this year 55,000 were issued JUST for horticultural and fruit growing businesses. The alternative is - our businesses go to the wall, and we all buy imports Absolute bollocks. In my experience from about 2005 waves of itinerant young East Europeans were given the opportunity to earn more than they could ever hope for in Poland, Lithuania etc. They couldn’t speak English so they gravitated towards the harder and less attractive jobs. Eventually the agencies only supplied East Europeans and many factories and farms become closed shops for East Europeans. The gangers were East Europeans, the Overseers were East Europeans . Lefties can’t see beyond the fact that before East Europeans flooded the lower wage market and stagnated the pay,Brits did the job . I asked a bloke who worked in Tescos why he didn’t work in the local meat processing factory nearby . He told me that hardly anyone spoke English there . You were a minority in your own country . |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2023 21:05:33 GMT
If Brits do not want certain jobs - it means they wont do them, and it does not matter what any poster states on here, you cannot make people do jobs that they are not interested in, therefore we will always look abroad for some workers, and nothing is going to change that. Since 2004 when Eastern Europeans came here to live and work, certain companies and sectors flourished, where previously such businesses struggled through lack of labour and retention, which increased training and production costs. A good example of this would be Heck Foods, a company which did not even exist in 2004, it now turns over £25 Million per year, but its success is partly thanks to people who do not see working in a sausage factory as either .. not good enough for them, or below their expectations. Your Heck sausages would probably not be in your supermarket if it was not for the workers who work in the factory, British, Polish, Czech, Latvian and Estonians. Same in many industries and many companies up and down the country, but particularly in agricultural areas where food production is a big industry, in Lincolnshire, Cambridgeshire, East and North Yorkshire. SORRY - but many British people will not work in repetetive work, or in food production, or where it involves working with anything they consider unpleasant ... refrigerated environments, working with fish, working close to slaughterlines or nigh shifts, or where there is lots of water washing around. Brexiteers PRETEND that we can get by without migrant labour, but we cant, the government has already increased the numbers of working visa's, the number of Working Visa's shot up by over 70% between 2019 and 2022. The Working Visa numbers do not include the Seasonal Workers Scheme, where the government has had to accept and give in to NFU and industry demands, this year 55,000 were issued JUST for horticultural and fruit growing businesses. The alternative is - our businesses go to the wall, and we all buy imports Absolute bollocks. In my experience from about 2005 waves of itinerant young East Europeans were given the opportunity to earn more than they could ever hope for in Poland, Lithuania etc. They couldn’t speak English so they gravitated towards the harder and less attractive jobs. Eventually the agencies only supplied East Europeans and many factories and farms become closed shops for East Europeans. The gangers were East Europeans, the Overseers were East Europeans . Lefties can’t see beyond the fact that before East Europeans flooded the lower wage market and stagnated the pay,Brits did the job . I asked a bloke who worked in Tescos why he didn’t work in the local meat processing factory nearby . He told me that hardly anyone spoke English there . You were a minority in your own country . I have lived and worked in North Yorkshire all my life, the largest agricultural county in England, and I can categorically state that there is no "closed shops" or employers who only employ Eastern Europeans. I can also tell you that prior to 2004 virtually all such employers ( meat processors, fish processing, potato and vegetable sectors ) had PERMANENT labour shortages, such employers included McCains Potato Products, also the largest pork production unit in the UK ( Karro Foods ), and many others fixed their labour shortages with Eastern Europeans, who were willing to do the jobs that many of our own people did not want. I vividly remember the newspaper adverts which appeared in our local newspapers EVERY WEEK "production operatives required", good rates of pay, enhanced overtime and weekend rates, free buses laid on from neighbouring towns. Suddenly in 2004 those adverts stopped. Your assertion that " before East Europeans flooded the lower wage market and stagnated the pay,Brits did the job" Is simply not true, the Eastern Europeans filled the gaps, they filled the unfilled vaccancies, and that is a fact. |
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Post by Bentley on Aug 3, 2023 21:27:20 GMT
Absolute bollocks. In my experience from about 2005 waves of itinerant young East Europeans were given the opportunity to earn more than they could ever hope for in Poland, Lithuania etc. They couldn’t speak English so they gravitated towards the harder and less attractive jobs. Eventually the agencies only supplied East Europeans and many factories and farms become closed shops for East Europeans. The gangers were East Europeans, the Overseers were East Europeans . Lefties can’t see beyond the fact that before East Europeans flooded the lower wage market and stagnated the pay,Brits did the job . I asked a bloke who worked in Tescos why he didn’t work in the local meat processing factory nearby . He told me that hardly anyone spoke English there . You were a minority in your own country . I have lived and worked in North Yorkshire all my life, the largest agricultural county in England, and I can categorically state that there is no "closed shops" or employers who only employ Eastern Europeans. I can also tell you that prior to 2004 virtually all such employers ( meat processors, fish processing, potato and vegetable sectors ) had PERMANENT labour shortages, such employers included McCains Potato Products, also the largest pork production unit in the UK ( Karro Foods ), and many others fixed their labour shortages with Eastern Europeans, who were willing to do the jobs that many of our own people did not want. I vividly remember the newspaper adverts which appeared in our local newspapers EVERY WEEK "production operatives required", good rates of pay, enhanced overtime and weekend rates, free buses laid on from neighbouring towns. Suddenly in 2004 those adverts stopped. Your assertion that " before East Europeans flooded the lower wage market and stagnated the pay,Brits did the job" Is simply not true, the Eastern Europeans filled the gaps, they filled the unfilled vaccancies, and that is a fact. I don’t care where you worked . The East European agency workers eventually came from Eastern Europe and East European gangers and overseers preferred East Europeans to work under them. The East Europeans worked cheap and either ignored or were unaware of health and safety. If that means ‘ willing to do the jobs that many of our own people did not want.“ then so be it but it reveals just how much lefties despise the British working class . lefties like you are complicit in the ever decreasing remuneration for working class Brits and that is a fact That’s why I can’t stand the hypocrisy when lefties whine about working conditions and pay. |
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Post by buccaneer on Aug 3, 2023 21:39:51 GMT
The UK has 6 million EU citizens settled. They've helped over populate the UK. It would be interesting to know how many EU citizens are here on top of that number illegally in the UK.
At least the aforementioned Indians earn their right to live and work in the UK and not get it as some grand entitlement scheme.
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