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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2022 15:10:32 GMT
The issue certainly was, but it was to a large extent weaponised and exaggerated by opponents both inside and outside the party for dubious political motivations. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2022 15:13:40 GMT
UKIP always was the acceptable - and therefore more successful - face of racism, which is why the BNP vote went there. UKIP in it's earlier days were getting nowhere with their anti-EU, pro-sovereignty arguments. It was only when they latched onto immigration as an issue and attracted the racist vote did they start gaining serious support. And that racist vote has not been destroyed by UKIP. It is still out there. Who else do you think the likes of Priti Patel and Suella Braverman have been appealing to? Bullshit. Concern over immigration is not racist and it is disingenuous to deliberately conflate the two. Patel and Braverman are well aware that it's a serious public concern that can't simply be brushed aside as “Racism”. Hell, even Starmer has now recognised that concern and that attempts to brush it aside is electoral suicide. You need to wake up and smell the coffee: Shouting “Racist” at everyone you disagree with is not going to cut the mustard. I agree that concern over immigration need not always be motivated by racism. But it is certainly an issue which does motivate racists, and it is these that the likes of Farage, Patel, and Braverman have been wilfully appealing to all too often. |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 8, 2022 15:15:45 GMT
Oh I know that freedom of movement was "not just" for white Europeans, but you know full well that whites make up the majority of passport holders in the EU and that an unlimited number of EU passport holders had migration rights under the freedom of movement policy, irrespective of their CVs.
It is racist to judge people by where they come from.
It is not racist to judge people by who they actually are.
A skilled person is a skilled person whether they're from Ireland, India, Iran, Israel, or wherever.
A nice person is a nice person.
A criminal is a criminal.
People are not defined by their passports but their character and freedom of movement does not consider that.
Ergo, freedom of movement is a fundamentally flawed quite possibly racist policy.
The system of immigration advocated by the United Kingdom Independence Party and other Brexiteers is NON RACIST.
Our system considers skills, earnings / savings, and whether people are criminals or not.
The last thing we want is a situation of an economic immigrant failing and ending up sleeping rough on the streets.
The system you support caused far too much of that.
Another thing we don't want are criminals.
Law abiding immigrants of any nationality or colour are welcome provided they pass the points test and that's down to their skills and means to cope and lack of criminal record.
I'd rather have a load of skilled people come than a load of unskilled people any day.
The skilled people are less likely to end up sleeping rough and dying.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2022 15:23:54 GMT
Don't shoot the messenger. But they are terrorists. Bullshit. They are not attempting to kill or injure or destroy property with bombs. They are aiming to cause maximum inconvenience, not maximum terror. Their tactics are wrong and totally counterproductive, but they are not terrorist. To call them terrorists is frankly ridiculous. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2022 15:28:43 GMT
Bullshit. Concern over immigration is not racist and it is disingenuous to deliberately conflate the two. Patel and Braverman are well aware that it's a serious public concern that can't simply be brushed aside as “Racism”. Hell, even Starmer has now recognised that concern and that attempts to brush it aside is electoral suicide. You need to wake up and smell the coffee: Shouting “Racist” at everyone you disagree with is not going to cut the mustard. I agree that concern over immigration need not always be motivated by racism. But it is certainly an issue which does motivate racists, and it is these that the likes of Farage, Patel, and Braverman have been wilfully appealing to all too often. An irrational and ludicrous way to attack common sense, and I would argue that it's nonsense like this that is trying to make it into something it is not. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2022 15:33:31 GMT
Oh I know that freedom of movement was "not just" for white Europeans, but you know full well that whites make up the majority of passport holders in the EU and that an unlimited number of EU passport holders had migration rights under the freedom of movement policy, irrespective of their CVs. It is racist to judge people by where they come from. It is not racist to judge people by who they actually are. A skilled person is a skilled person whether they're from Ireland, India, Iran, Israel, or wherever. A nice person is a nice person. A criminal is a criminal. People are not defined by their passports but their character and freedom of movement does not consider that. Ergo, freedom of movement is a fundamentally flawed quite possibly racist policy. The system of immigration advocated by the United Kingdom Independence Party and other Brexiteers is NON RACIST. Our system considers skills, earnings / savings, and whether people are criminals or not. The last thing we want is a situation of an economic immigrant failing and ending up sleeping rough on the streets. The system you support caused far too much of that. Another thing we don't want are criminals. Law abiding immigrants of any nationality or colour are welcome provided they pass the points test and that's down to their skills and means to cope and lack of criminal record. I'd rather have a load of skilled people come than a load of unskilled people any day. The skilled people are less likely to end up sleeping rough and dying. And we had that for people of any ethnicity from outside the EU. But part and parcel of EU membership was the right of EU nationals to live and work anywhere they chose to in the EU. There was nothing racist about that. It was part of the terms of membership. Now we are not in the EU we are free to apply the same terms to EU nationals as we do to non EU foreigners. Though we ourselves lose the right to live and work anywhere we like in the EU too as quid pro quo. But freedom of movement within the EU for all it's people was envisaged as one of the benefits of membership, the treating of all EU nationals as a part of a larger economic area and entity. There was fuck all inherently racist about this. The wisdom of it of course can be open to question and debate. But to portray it as racist is ridiculous. Most of the racists wanted to stop freedom of movement because they simultaneously believed Poles were stealing all their jobs yet also sitting on their arses claiming benefits, depending upon the latest thing they read in the Sun or Mail |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 8, 2022 15:33:37 GMT
Terrorism is an act designed to cause terror.
It does not have to be murderous, it does not have to cause injury or the destruction of property.
All it has to do is terrify the people it is aimed at.
It can be a letter, a threat, it can be an action that costs an individual or organisation or government a fortune.
I do not condone terrorism.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2022 15:35:01 GMT
I agree that concern over immigration need not always be motivated by racism. But it is certainly an issue which does motivate racists, and it is these that the likes of Farage, Patel, and Braverman have been wilfully appealing to all too often. An irrational and ludicrous way to attack common sense, and I would argue that it's nonsense like this that is trying to make it into something it is not. When racism is common sense we are on the road to a dystopia of hate, cheered on by the ignorant. |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 8, 2022 15:36:31 GMT
Oh I know that freedom of movement was "not just" for white Europeans, but you know full well that whites make up the majority of passport holders in the EU and that an unlimited number of EU passport holders had migration rights under the freedom of movement policy, irrespective of their CVs. It is racist to judge people by where they come from. It is not racist to judge people by who they actually are. A skilled person is a skilled person whether they're from Ireland, India, Iran, Israel, or wherever. A nice person is a nice person. A criminal is a criminal. People are not defined by their passports but their character and freedom of movement does not consider that. Ergo, freedom of movement is a fundamentally flawed quite possibly racist policy. The system of immigration advocated by the United Kingdom Independence Party and other Brexiteers is NON RACIST. Our system considers skills, earnings / savings, and whether people are criminals or not. The last thing we want is a situation of an economic immigrant failing and ending up sleeping rough on the streets. The system you support caused far too much of that. Another thing we don't want are criminals. Law abiding immigrants of any nationality or colour are welcome provided they pass the points test and that's down to their skills and means to cope and lack of criminal record. I'd rather have a load of skilled people come than a load of unskilled people any day. The skilled people are less likely to end up sleeping rough and dying. And we had that for people of any ethnicity from outside the EU. But part and parcel of EU membership was the right of EU nationals to live and work anywhere they chose to in the EU. There was nothing racist about that. It was part of the terms of membership. Now we are not in the EU we are free to apply the same terms to EU nationals as we do to non EU foreigners. Though we ourselves lose the right to live and work anywhere we like in the EU too as quid pro quo. But freedom of movement within the EU for all it's people was envisaged as one of the benefits of membership, the treating of all EU nationals as a part of a larger economic area and entity. There was fuck all inherently racist about this. The wisdom of it of course can be open to question and debate. But to portray it as racist is ridiculous. Most of the racists wanted to stop freedom of movement because they simultaneously believed Poles were stealing all their jobs yet also sitting on their arses claiming benefits, depending upon the latest thing they read in the Sun or Mail As I say, a flawed policy that judged people by where they came from rather than what they can do. Freedom of movement is idealistic but it does not produce any obvious societal benefits over other immigration systems such as the Australian points system and has a few drawbacks. There was a freedom of movement serial killer a few years ago who carried out borders in multiple EU nations. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dariusz_KotwicaAnd you still haven't provided any evidence that UK Independence Party were racist to advocate the Aussie points system instead of it. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2022 15:37:52 GMT
An irrational and ludicrous way to attack common sense, and I would argue that it's nonsense like this that is trying to make it into something it is not. When racism is common sense we are on the road to a dystopia of hate, cheered on by the ignorant. Only the ignorant or fanatics would equate immigration control as racism. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 8, 2022 15:39:06 GMT
I agree that concern over immigration need not always be motivated by racism. But it is certainly an issue which does motivate racists, and it is these that the likes of Farage, Patel, and Braverman have been wilfully appealing to all too often. Prove it. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 8, 2022 15:39:55 GMT
Don't shoot the messenger. But they are terrorists. Bullshit. They are not attempting to kill or injure or destroy property with bombs. They are aiming to cause maximum inconvenience, not maximum terror...
Irrelevant.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2022 15:50:46 GMT
And we had that for people of any ethnicity from outside the EU. But part and parcel of EU membership was the right of EU nationals to live and work anywhere they chose to in the EU. There was nothing racist about that. It was part of the terms of membership. Now we are not in the EU we are free to apply the same terms to EU nationals as we do to non EU foreigners. Though we ourselves lose the right to live and work anywhere we like in the EU too as quid pro quo. But freedom of movement within the EU for all it's people was envisaged as one of the benefits of membership, the treating of all EU nationals as a part of a larger economic area and entity. There was fuck all inherently racist about this. The wisdom of it of course can be open to question and debate. But to portray it as racist is ridiculous. Most of the racists wanted to stop freedom of movement because they simultaneously believed Poles were stealing all their jobs yet also sitting on their arses claiming benefits, depending upon the latest thing they read in the Sun or Mail As I say, a flawed policy that judged people by where they came from rather than what they can do. Freedom of movement is idealistic but it does not produce any obvious societal benefits over other immigration systems such as the Australian points system and has a few drawbacks. There was a freedom of movement serial killer a few years ago who carried out borders in multiple EU nations. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dariusz_KotwicaAnd you still haven't provided any evidence that UK Independence Party were racist to advocate the Aussie points system instead of it. One benefit of freedom of movement was that you or I had the integral right to live and work anywhere we wanted to within the EU. We could have lived and worked in Barcelona, Rome, Paris, or Berlin if we wanted to. We have now lost that right. Freedom of movement was a freedom for all EU nationals that we enjoyed too. We have now lost that freedom. You might regard the loss of our freedom a price worth paying to deny it to others. That is a point that may be argued. But it was a freedom that we enjoyed along with the rest of the EU, a freedom that we have now lost. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2022 15:58:00 GMT
Bullshit. They are not attempting to kill or injure or destroy property with bombs. They are aiming to cause maximum inconvenience, not maximum terror...
Irrelevant.
Utter crap. Terrorism is the act of seeking to instil terror. The clue is in the name. To conflate this with highly disruptive or annoying acts of protest is risible and pathetic, but then your posts are frequently more valuable for their comedic value than for any valid point. |
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Post by totheleft3 on Nov 8, 2022 15:58:44 GMT
Aussie points system
Vinny you keep harping on about the Aussie points system has its some magic cure to immigration.
Ive pointed out to you before that its not effective has ours.
1 there are more immigrants in Australia then Britain
2 there more immigrants in prison then in Britain.
And there no prove that Immigrants in Australia are more skilled then them in Britain.
If Australian points system was better then ours dont you think whatever government being labour or conservative would of introduced it
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