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Post by zanygame on Jul 23, 2023 7:45:15 GMT
Are you referring to the scandal in 2009?
Well they might think you mean the IPCC are currently lying and that we can dismiss AGW.
On Co2 causing warming, the evidence is overwhelming that is causes warming, and as you state overwhelming evidence is considered to be fact.
You need to stop reading bloggers and taking their words as gospel, that way you might begin to understand why your views are at odds with both the scientific community and the facts.
Meanwhile the oceans are 5 degrees warmer than they should be and you are side lined because people can see what's happening on their news channels every day.
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Post by thomas on Jul 24, 2023 7:11:00 GMT
Rhodes fires forcing families to flee Greek island 'set by human hands' say officials
Firefighters have said there were "early indications of arson"
Major forest fires that have forced families to flee Rhodes may have been started deliberately. The blistering heatwave may not be to blame for flames ripping through the tourist hot-spot as officials said there were "early indications of arson".
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 24, 2023 8:14:00 GMT
Zanygame said: "Well they might think you mean the IPCC are currently lying and that we can dismiss AGW.
On Co2 causing warming, the evidence is overwhelming that is causes warming, and as you state overwhelming evidence is considered to be fact".
You're so ignorant about science that it's a bit difficult to have a rational discussion with you. Let's have a look at the basics (pre-O-level).
Science is based on facts. The facts that it's based on are "observed data" - which are the only facts we have. Scientists look at the facts and try to divine "relationships" between them - correlations and causation if you like. When they find a causal relationship they try to explain "why" - and that's called a theory. Theories are never facts - although some become "laws" (e.g. Newton's laws of motion). But some are so well accepted that they are almost regarded as facts and can be used as the foundation for other theories. And that's about it.
CO2 is a known greenhouse gas, i.e. it is known to trap the Sun's heat. This was discovered by Tyndall in about 1850 (IIRC) and is now an accepted fact and we have equations to represent its effects. However, the Earth's system is highly complex - the most complex system known to man - and CO2 also has many other effects in the Earth's system. In particular CO2 can also cause cooling by promoting photosynthesis in plants which locks up the Sun's energy and eventually leads to fuels like oil. And that's the problem with trying to ascribe warming to CO2.
There are a huge number of factors that determine our weather/climate and most of them we don't understand - and don't have any equations to represent their effects. And the "attribution" - i.e. the analysis of the various amounts of warming/cooling attributable to each factor - has NEVER been done because we don't have either the equations OR the data to do it.
We do NOT know that CO2 has an overall warming effect on the planet and it is not "considered to be a fact" by scientists. It's a theory - and at the moment it's fairly dubious theory because the models built on the hypothesis that CO2 causes warming (which is what the IPCC models assume) do NOT work. As I've pointed out before there has been a virtually identical period of warming that occurred in the '20's (the Early Twentieth Century Warming ETCW) that happened without any significant increase in CO2. There has also been the "hiatus" more recently when global temperatures did NOT increase for many years - which was even accepted by the IPCC as a cause for concern. Unfortunately they chose to eliminate the pause by deleting data that they didn't like (Pausegate). There is also a body of scientists who say that the current patterns of warming can better be explained by the Sun's activities - and have the data to back up their claims.
So I'm afraid the evidence for CO2 warming is NOT "overwhelming". In fact it's non-existent.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2023 9:58:28 GMT
Rhodes fires forcing families to flee Greek island 'set by human hands' say officials
Firefighters have said there were "early indications of arson"
Major forest fires that have forced families to flee Rhodes may have been started deliberately. The blistering heatwave may not be to blame for flames ripping through the tourist hot-spot as officials said there were "early indications of arson".
Arson attacks are definitely adding to warming in Rhodes. I blame the parents.  |
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Post by thomas on Jul 24, 2023 10:06:24 GMT
Rhodes fires forcing families to flee Greek island 'set by human hands' say officials
Firefighters have said there were "early indications of arson"
Major forest fires that have forced families to flee Rhodes may have been started deliberately. The blistering heatwave may not be to blame for flames ripping through the tourist hot-spot as officials said there were "early indications of arson".
Arson attacks are definitely adding to warming in Rhodes. I blame the parents. was just saying to the wife this morning how we remember how dry hot and dusty rhodes was when we went there in the late nineties. We stayed in Afandou , near Faliraki , and from memory you could easily believe a stray cigarette or a careless barbecue etc could start major fires .
Joking aside , im just astounded how these global warming alarmists are increasingly blaming the least thing on climate change. I couldnt believe that thread the other day claiming the holiday industry is going bust , and people arent going to the med.
It seems to be people stuck back in blighty hiding in their rainy houses believeing the crap auntie beeb comes out with , and then those in the real world wondering what they are actually gibbering about.
Good to see the backlash in glasgow london and elsewhere against things like the ULEZ and net zero is in full swing.
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Post by thomas on Jul 24, 2023 10:09:34 GMT
Thought this a fair balanced article...
Voters won’t accept green policies unless they make sense and are fair
Keir Starmer doesn’t mess about. After Labour‘s failure to take the formerly safe Tory seat of Uxbridge in last week’s round of by-elections, he has ditched another pillar of Labour’s green agenda: low emission zones. The London Labour mayor, Sadiq Khan, has had to eat humble pie and promise to rethink the extension of his controversial Ulez in the city. As the defeated Labour candidate, Danny Beales, put it: “You cannot tell working people you are laser-focused on the cost of living . . . and then penalise them simply for driving to work”. Quite.
The Scottish Labour Party also supports low emission zones (LEZs), or used too. When Glasgow’s LEZ went live last month Labour did a handbrake turn and called for it to be postponed for a year. They’d noted the growing disquiet in the periphery of Scotland’s largest city and evidently hope an Uxbridge effect could help them to win Glasgow back from the SNP. Recent polls suggest the nationalists could lose five of the six Glasgow seats in next year’s general election.
Motorists who enter Glasgow’s LEZ face fines of £60 for a first offence rising to £480 for repeated violations, unless they own a car less than eight years old for diesel and 17 years old for petrol. About 20 per cent of cars in Scotland wouldn’t qualify and about 35 per cent of vans. In the first month, Glasgow LEZ fines have been running at 100 a day, earning £175,000 for the council from the pockets of people who can’t afford to buy new cars
The SNP say that the LEZ will make Glasgow’s air cleaner and save lives, though the evidence for this is weak. Glasgow already meets most of its NO2 emissions targets. Natural wastage of older vehicles means that emissions of NO2 and CO2 will continue to fall without coercion. There is no credible evidence that penalising poorly-paid care workers travelling to work in Glasgow will cleanse the atmosphere sufficiently to have any noticeable impact on mortality in the city.
But people shouldn’t be driving in cities anyway, should they, say SNP ministers, who think we should walk and cycle for our moral and physical wellbeing — not that many ministers do. Green minister Lorna Slater’s use of her ministerial motor has become a national joke. The roll out of low emission zones across Scottish cities isn’t really about local emissions but about encouraging people to use public transport.
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 24, 2023 12:00:29 GMT
This stuff about LEZ and ULEZ is also based on the propaganda that CO2 is a pollutant - rather than an essential constituent of the atmosphere. CO2 isn't poisonous. Most petrol engines nowadays emit nothing but water and CO2 which won't harm anyone. Diesel engines are another matter because they emit significant quantities of NO2 which is a deadly poison - but it was the last Labour govt who encouraged everyone to buy diesels because they emit 10% less CO2 - Yes, and many hundreds of a percent more NO2.
There is a valid reason to try to stop diesels polluting the air in cities - because it poisons people. But CO2 isn't poisonous. It's just the current scapegoat for global warming, and that would happen wherever it was emitted - it makes no difference whether it's in a city or in the country.
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Post by thomas on Jul 24, 2023 12:12:30 GMT
This stuff about LEZ and ULEZ is also based on the propaganda that CO2 is a pollutant - rather than an essential constituent of the atmosphere. CO2 isn't poisonous. Most petrol engines nowadays emit nothing but water and CO2 which won't harm anyone. Diesel engines are another matter because they emit significant quantities of NO2 which is a deadly poison - but it was the last Labour govt who encouraged everyone to buy diesels because they emit 10% less CO2 - Yes, and many hundreds of a percent more NO2. There is a valid reason to try to stop diesels polluting the air in cities - because it poisons people. But CO2 isn't poisonous. It's just the current scapegoat for global warming, and that would happen wherever it was emitted - it makes no difference whether it's in a city or in the country. well theres two things in the article that rings true about the whole climate debate.
One is i think despite the arguments over the causes of climatic change , most folk appear to agree humanity should clean up its act and help the planet as best they can .I think thats uncontroversial to say that.
Second point is what do we do to help the planet? As the article states , if its government imposing unfair taxation and policy , then its a non starter , and bound to massively backfire.
The longer it goes on , the more desperate climate alarmists are getting , the more mistakes they are making , and the public slowly turning against them. The green party leader in scotland harvie is public enemy number one at the minute.
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 24, 2023 12:26:03 GMT
Of course we should "help the planet as best we can" - that's "motherhood and apple pie" stuff. But we can't do that until we have worked out what's causing the problems and what the problems are.
If we're talking here about "global warming" the fact is that we don't know exactly what's causing it. If we're talking about the mess we're making of the planet then we absolutely DO know - it's overpopulation. But no politician will even mention that.
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Post by thomas on Jul 24, 2023 12:40:57 GMT
Of course we should "help the planet as best we can" - that's "motherhood and apple pie" stuff. But we can't do that until we have worked out what's causing the problems and what the problems are. If we're talking here about "global warming" the fact is that we don't know exactly what's causing it. If we're talking about the mess we're making of the planet then we absolutely DO know - it's overpopulation. But no politician will even mention that. i should have clarified.
What im talking about in terms of helping is not littering oceans with plastic , recycling more , becoming self sufficient in energy , that sort of thing.
on the bigger picture of what causes climate change wether natural or man made or both , i agree. We know so little about it as things stand.
I read andrew neil on twitter over the weekend argue with a climate zealot regarding the rhodes fires , and he pointed out to much pouting among alarmists that the ipcc own latest report pointed out much of the planets problems with fires , heavy snowfall and warm temperatures in places are merely naturally occuring events not necessarily due to man.
Overpopualtion is a major issue as we fully agree. Its taken tens thousands of years to get to 1 billion , and we have jumped 7 billion in a hundred years. of course politicians dont address this in their climatic concerns.
Complicated issue that taxing sharon out of her four by four during the school run or stopping white van man going into cowcaddens in glasgow isnt going to stop.
I see climate zealotary fast becoming a self defeating excercise as taxation to cure all evil once against becomes the buzzword.
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Post by thomas on Jul 24, 2023 13:06:48 GMT
Of course we should "help the planet as best we can" - that's "motherhood and apple pie" stuff. But we can't do that until we have worked out what's causing the problems and what the problems are. If we're talking here about "global warming" the fact is that we don't know exactly what's causing it. If we're talking about the mess we're making of the planet then we absolutely DO know - it's overpopulation. But no politician will even mention that. another point on the growing anger regarding the ulez scheme in glasgow.....(and elsewhere of ocurse)
"In the first month, Glasgow LEZ fines have been running at 100 a day, earning £175,000 for the council from the pockets of people who can’t afford to buy new cars."
And there...is your REAL motivation for the LEZ
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Post by thomas on Jul 24, 2023 13:13:58 GMT
BBC Climate Editor back home... from 1,800-MILE Spain jaunt by plane - where he blamed heatwave on carbon emissions here
Justin Rowlatt, 57, made the 1,800 mile round trip to Spain by plane for report
Return flight will have produced an estimated 0.32 tons of carbon emissions
Conservative MP Sir John Hayes said: 'You can't fly if you are a climate zealot'
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 24, 2023 13:19:24 GMT
Justin Rowlatt should have been sacked by now. He's been caught out telling porkies several times. Only the BBC would tolerate it.
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Post by thomas on Jul 24, 2023 13:27:25 GMT
Justin Rowlatt should have been sacked by now. He's been caught out telling porkies several times. Only the BBC would tolerate it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2023 13:30:31 GMT
They need to place a thermometer near Etna's vents to record a higher temperature for the BBC's benefit. It would be for no-one else's.
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