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Post by Pacifico on Jun 18, 2023 16:59:59 GMT
Moderation Notice.
I had deleted several posts that are not relevant to the thread - please bear in mind the specific rules of this section of the forum.
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Post by johnofgwent on Jun 18, 2023 17:14:51 GMT
There is no definitive physical or archaeological evidence of the existence of Jesus. “There’s nothing conclusive, nor would I expect there to be,” Mykytiuk says. “Peasants don’t normally leave an archaeological trail.” “The reality is that we don’t have archaeological records for virtually anyone who lived in Jesus’s time and place,” So should we continue telling children debatable "facts" about Jesus and his Cruefiction ?? Has the Turin shroud been properly investigated? The last time I heard it mention was when the Catholic Church refused to have it investigated fully. I believe that was the state of affairs when i last donned my fishbadge and led the service as a lay preacher. Meaning when i was younger than my son in law I believe it has indeed been exposed as a fraud. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_TurinMicroscopy of the samples taken on sticky tape which were still being analysed when Ian Wilson wrote his book have been revealed to be paint, and radiocarbon dating of the cloth dates it to the 13th century, although in defence of sceptice of the science, had it been taken to a place between one and six miles south of where the A470 / M4 junction lies today in June 1981 it would have been exposed to an emergency burn of 14C02 that would have dated joseph of arimathea's cloak to about the date of te black death so NOTHING is absolute who knows what biological radioassay disasters of that sort it might have been exposed to up the road and downwind of Turin Medical School
Oh by the way in answer to the statement that we have found sod all evidence of anyone from 2000 years ago ... I am DAMN sure I read THIS Story in NEW SCIENTIST under archaeological discoveries rather than some tourist guide but hey, "it's a living" israel-tourguide.info/2010/12/14/caiaphas-family-tomb-ossuary/ |
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Post by besoeker3 on Jun 18, 2023 17:19:13 GMT
Do YOU have definitive physical or archaeological evidence of the existence of Jesus? You are asking the wrong person mate. I gave up on religion when I was really young. No good asking a heathen like me. Fairy nuff............... |
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Post by jonksy on Jun 18, 2023 17:21:02 GMT
Has the Turin shroud been properly investigated? The last time I heard it mention was when the Catholic Church refused to have it investigated fully. I believe that was the state of affairs when i last donned my fishbadge and led the service as a lay preacher. Meaning when i was younger than my son in law I believe it has indeed been exposed as a fraud. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_TurinMicroscopy of the samples taken on sticky tape which were still being analysed when Ian Wilson wrote his book have been revealed to be paint, and radiocarbon dating of the cloth dates it to the 13th century, although in defence of sceptice of the science, had it been taken to a place between one and six miles south of where the A470 / M4 junction lies today in June 1981 it would have been exposed to an emergency burn of 14C02 that would have dated joseph of arimathea's cloak to about the date of te black death so NOTHING is absolute who knows what biological radioassay disasters of that sort it might have been exposed to up the road and downwind of Turin Medical School
Many thanks John I know scientist's have wanted the Catholic church to relent on their obstruction of having the shroud Carbon dated. |
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Post by jonksy on Jun 18, 2023 17:25:21 GMT
I think the same can be said about the catholic church and their vice like grip of the dead sea scrolls.
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Post by besoeker3 on Jun 18, 2023 17:32:51 GMT
Has the Turin shroud been properly investigated? The last time I heard it mention was when the Catholic Church refused to have it investigated fully. I believe that was the state of affairs when i last donned my fishbadge and led the service as a lay preacher. Meaning when i was younger than my son in law I believe it has indeed been exposed as a fraud. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_TurinMicroscopy of the samples taken on sticky tape which were still being analysed when Ian Wilson wrote his book have been revealed to be paint, and radiocarbon dating of the cloth dates it to the 13th century, although in defence of sceptice of the science, had it been taken to a place between one and six miles south of where the A470 / M4 junction lies today in June 1981 it would have been exposed to an emergency burn of 14C02 that would have dated joseph of arimathea's cloak to about the date of te black death so NOTHING is absolute who knows what biological radioassay disasters of that sort it might have been exposed to up the road and downwind of Turin Medical School
Oh by the way in answer to the statement that we have found sod all evidence of anyone from 2000 years ago ... I am DAMN sure I read THIS Story in NEW SCIENTIST under archaeological discoveries rather than some tourist guide but hey, "it's a living" israel-tourguide.info/2010/12/14/caiaphas-family-tomb-ossuary/That's interesting. And I do believe we have significant evidence from 2000 years ago. But do we have the Jesus Crusiffiction story? Can we really teach this to our kids if it isn't known to be factual - speculation if you like? |
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Post by Toreador on Jun 18, 2023 17:36:13 GMT
(1) Eh? Many peoples had more than one god, including the Jews prior to the ramblings of Abraham and he never killed them all off immediately. You are correct in describing the Bible as not a historical textbook, most, if not all of it, (2) was written after the described events and with many omissions.(1) They did but we're only talking about Christianity here....and up to 325 (for the sake of simplicity) they hadn't made up their minds on how many gods they had or who in fact was God or how to define what their God actually was...ergo the in-fighting. So, based on the shindig at Nicaea (325AD overseen by the Emperor Constantine) they eventually ended up (dis)agreeing that there were three Gods in one God (as it were) they came up with a politically motivated doctrine called homoousios which was designed to settle the question and make everyone friends again....which it didn't!
(2) as we've discussed history is always written after the fact. The issue is that "history" can be carved on stone or handed down by word of mouth or in the form of stories or physical artifacts. Written documents go missing or get destroyed buried eaten by critters and simply lost to time...therefore 1000s of years later we have to make do with what we've got.
Nothing there about Nasherah then, she was worshipped as a god. The whole plot surrounding the spread of Christianity was based on substituting it for Pagan festivals and building churches on the sites of Roman temples. |
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Post by Tinculin on Jun 18, 2023 17:42:26 GMT
Correct. Suicide rates are far higher amongst transgender people opposed to other groups which is why telling transgender people that genital mutilation is a good thing & will somehow help, is a bad idea. That's your opinion. It's not a medical opinion. It might be best to leave it to the professionals. You're not a medical professional, so maybe in the interests of hypocrisy, I should prevent you from posting another word on the matter? If your only argument is to appeal to authority, then i'm afraid it's a very bad argument to make. Alternatively, we should both be allowed to have an opinion, and my view is that there is no world where chopping off a young mans cock is going to suddenly make him a woman. There is a 32-50% suicide rate in transgender people, and by encouraging or being a proponent of this behavior, you're not only mutilating young people, you're also directly adding to the chance they'll commit suicide. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jun 18, 2023 18:22:04 GMT
I believe that was the state of affairs when i last donned my fishbadge and led the service as a lay preacher. Meaning when i was younger than my son in law I believe it has indeed been exposed as a fraud. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_TurinMicroscopy of the samples taken on sticky tape which were still being analysed when Ian Wilson wrote his book have been revealed to be paint, and radiocarbon dating of the cloth dates it to the 13th century, although in defence of sceptice of the science, had it been taken to a place between one and six miles south of where the A470 / M4 junction lies today in June 1981 it would have been exposed to an emergency burn of 14C02 that would have dated joseph of arimathea's cloak to about the date of te black death so NOTHING is absolute who knows what biological radioassay disasters of that sort it might have been exposed to up the road and downwind of Turin Medical School
Oh by the way in answer to the statement that we have found sod all evidence of anyone from 2000 years ago ... I am DAMN sure I read THIS Story in NEW SCIENTIST under archaeological discoveries rather than some tourist guide but hey, "it's a living" israel-tourguide.info/2010/12/14/caiaphas-family-tomb-ossuary/That's interesting. And I do believe we have significant evidence from 2000 years ago. But do we have the Jesus Crusiffiction story? Can we really teach this to our kids if it isn't known to be factual - speculation if you like? this of course is the crux of what my original question in this thread was getting at. What exactly are we teaching and in what context. My daughters and grand daughter have had a load of hogwash thrown at them in their religious studies lessons which are forced on them. My own religious education classes 1961-1974 were of course radically different, focussed purely on christianity and every one of the twenty jews three hindus and one moslem in my secondary school (which is itself proof of how this country has gone since 74) were given the option to be excused. Interestingly six orthodox jews were removed by their parents and all the others were told to sit and listen. Whether to know their enemy or learn the basics of the indigenous religion as it was then viewed, i do not know. I have no problem with children being taught about religion in schools. As ling as it is taught with the strict understanding that what is taught is tenets of faith. How much detail i am comfortable with, well again this is debateable. By the time i was my grand daughters age i’d witnessed a death by beheading in a road accident and i was about to witness a woman plunge ten stories to a very interesting end. So stories of what was done to guy fawkes supplied as part of my history lessons at 14, and the documentary factual mechanics of crucifixion as researched by me in the medical textbooks aged 15 are things i EXPECT to be taught. But to what age group is the key here. So i may be closer to Darling’s pov than my posts may have alluded |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jun 18, 2023 18:34:25 GMT
That's your opinion. It's not a medical opinion. It might be best to leave it to the professionals. You're not a medical professional, so maybe in the interests of hypocrisy, I should prevent you from posting another word on the matter? If your only argument is to appeal to authority, then i'm afraid it's a very bad argument to make. Alternatively, we should both be allowed to have an opinion, and my view is that there is no world where chopping off a young mans cock is going to suddenly make him a woman. There is a 32-50% suicide rate in transgender people, and by encouraging or being a proponent of this behavior, you're not only mutilating young people, you're also directly adding to the chance they'll commit suicide. My younger daughter’s female cat had chunks of her insides disabled / removed by cats protection before they gave her to us and my elder daughter’s and granddaughter’s male cat arrived with all bits intact but didn’t stay that way for long but neither animal is considered anything other than the gender they were at birth. I quite strongly support your view but having worked with people who were living as if the opposite gender to that they arrived in this world as, i don’t actually care that much if they want to pretend otherwise. Back in 1997 i made it clear to one chap of this inclination straight to his face he was the ugliest ‘woman’ i’d ever worked with and he replied i was the ugliest bloke he’d worked with, we shook hands and got on with what we were being paid to do. Namely fix the phone system so an 0345 or later 0800 call to the AA was properly routed to the nearest operations centre. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jun 18, 2023 18:45:01 GMT
I believe that was the state of affairs when i last donned my fishbadge and led the service as a lay preacher. Meaning when i was younger than my son in law I believe it has indeed been exposed as a fraud. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_TurinMicroscopy of the samples taken on sticky tape which were still being analysed when Ian Wilson wrote his book have been revealed to be paint, and radiocarbon dating of the cloth dates it to the 13th century, although in defence of sceptice of the science, had it been taken to a place between one and six miles south of where the A470 / M4 junction lies today in June 1981 it would have been exposed to an emergency burn of 14C02 that would have dated joseph of arimathea's cloak to about the date of te black death so NOTHING is absolute who knows what biological radioassay disasters of that sort it might have been exposed to up the road and downwind of Turin Medical School
Oh by the way in answer to the statement that we have found sod all evidence of anyone from 2000 years ago ... I am DAMN sure I read THIS Story in NEW SCIENTIST under archaeological discoveries rather than some tourist guide but hey, "it's a living" israel-tourguide.info/2010/12/14/caiaphas-family-tomb-ossuary/That's interesting. And I do believe we have significant evidence from 2000 years ago. But do we have the Jesus Crusiffiction story? Can we really teach this to our kids if it isn't known to be factual - speculation if you like? on the subject of the crucifixion story i recall asking a lecturer in archaeology and anthropology - and a professed agnostic - at the uni Moira worked at whether one could believe the accounts of the crucifixion of christ the man and HE told me the same thing i heard from three ‘archbishops’ of three different christian sects - hence archbishop in quotes as one was a ‘moderator’. I’ve also heard the same from the Abbot at Caldey Island and an Imam at the University Chaplaincy. In short the lot of them all point to these records they all say are a bloody sight more believeable than Gerald of Wales and all quite firmly believe the Romans killed off a bloke hailed as the King Of The Jews. What they say about what happenned three days later of course … |
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Post by Einhorn on Jun 18, 2023 18:46:31 GMT
That's your opinion. It's not a medical opinion. It might be best to leave it to the professionals. You're not a medical professional, so maybe in the interests of hypocrisy, I should prevent you from posting another word on the matter? If your only argument is to appeal to authority, then i'm afraid it's a very bad argument to make. Alternatively, we should both be allowed to have an opinion, and my view is that there is no world where chopping off a young mans cock is going to suddenly make him a woman. There is a 32-50% suicide rate in transgender people, and by encouraging or being a proponent of this behavior, you're not only mutilating young people, you're also directly adding to the chance they'll commit suicide. Yes, but an opinion has to be based on something. It is the Dunning-Kruger effect if you think you know better than trained professionals. Of course, your remark about adding to the suicide rate also comes within the Dunning-Kruger effect. Your remark that you 'should prevent' me from pointing out that it is the Dunning-Kruger effect because I am not a medical professional simply makes no sense. A medical qualification is not required in that situation. |
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Post by thescotsman on Jun 18, 2023 19:15:42 GMT
(1) They did but we're only talking about Christianity here....and up to 325 (for the sake of simplicity) they hadn't made up their minds on how many gods they had or who in fact was God or how to define what their God actually was...ergo the in-fighting. So, based on the shindig at Nicaea (325AD overseen by the Emperor Constantine) they eventually ended up (dis)agreeing that there were three Gods in one God (as it were) they came up with a politically motivated doctrine called homoousios which was designed to settle the question and make everyone friends again....which it didn't!
(2) as we've discussed history is always written after the fact. The issue is that "history" can be carved on stone or handed down by word of mouth or in the form of stories or physical artifacts. Written documents go missing or get destroyed buried eaten by critters and simply lost to time...therefore 1000s of years later we have to make do with what we've got.
Nothing there about Nasherah then, she was worshipped as a god. The whole plot surrounding the spread of Christianity was based on substituting it for Pagan festivals and building churches on the sites of Roman temples. I have no idea what you're saying sorry? |
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Post by Toreador on Jun 18, 2023 19:17:45 GMT
Nothing there about Nasherah then, she was worshipped as a god. The whole plot surrounding the spread of Christianity was based on substituting it for Pagan festivals and building churches on the sites of Roman temples. I have no idea what you're saying sorry? Nasherah was God's wife and the rest is true; Google may be your friend. |
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Post by Tinculin on Jun 18, 2023 19:35:09 GMT
You're not a medical professional, so maybe in the interests of hypocrisy, I should prevent you from posting another word on the matter? If your only argument is to appeal to authority, then i'm afraid it's a very bad argument to make. Alternatively, we should both be allowed to have an opinion, and my view is that there is no world where chopping off a young mans cock is going to suddenly make him a woman. There is a 32-50% suicide rate in transgender people, and by encouraging or being a proponent of this behavior, you're not only mutilating young people, you're also directly adding to the chance they'll commit suicide. Yes, but an opinion has to be based on something. It is the Dunning-Kruger effect if you think you know better than trained professionals. Of course, your remark about adding to the suicide rate also comes within the Dunning-Kruger effect. Your remark that you 'should prevent' me from pointing out that it is the Dunning-Kruger effect because I am not a medical professional simply makes no sense. A medical qualification is not required in that situation. Now you’re just talking nonsense, because not all medical professionals agree with this nonsense, some very qualified psychiatrists disagree very openly with what is being taught in some schools, so no, it’s not what you say at all. I mean, I’ve not checked his videos but I’m fairly certain if I did, Jordan Peterson would call any claims incredulous and so if the medical community doesn’t agree, maybe it’s you who should reassess their certainty on this matter because while the past ten years might have been people threatened into silence over this topic, it seems the world is waking up and refuting a lot of this nonsense. |
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