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Post by Toreador on Jun 17, 2023 17:18:59 GMT
Hi Ned....why? I mean why do you think an auxilliary cohort of the 10th Legion give a flying fuck about some jewish guy they'd just crucified? For me the Roman's are merely facilitators for the narratives; the lad was crucified on the recommendation of Caiaphas and that's it as far as the Romans are concerned. The rest is up to whatever your imagination makes of the OT and NT constructions...? I ought to dig out the King James and look this up, but was Jesus executed by Roman soldiers ? I would have thought that sort of thing would have been left to the local police, who would have been Jewish It didn't happen, there are no cotemporaneous records, either Jewish or Roman, to support the crucifixion, it's a story hatched up by some dodgy historians well after the non-event. Same as the flight of Jews from Egypt led by Moses....hogwash unsupported by Egyptian records. |
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Post by besoeker3 on Jun 17, 2023 17:40:42 GMT
I ought to dig out the King James and look this up, but was Jesus executed by Roman soldiers ? I would have thought that sort of thing would have been left to the local police, who would have been Jewish It didn't happen, there are no cotemporaneous records, either Jewish or Roman, to support the crucifixion, it's a story hatched up by some dodgy historians well after the non-event. Same as the flight of Jews from Egypt led by Moses....hogwash unsupported by Egyptian records. Well said that man! |
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Post by thescotsman on Jun 17, 2023 18:10:44 GMT
I ought to dig out the King James and look this up, but was Jesus executed by Roman soldiers ? I would have thought that sort of thing would have been left to the local police, who would have been Jewish It didn't happen, there are no cotemporaneous records, either Jewish or Roman, to support the crucifixion, it's a story hatched up by some dodgy historians well after the non-event. Same as the flight of Jews from Egypt led by Moses....hogwash unsupported by Egyptian records. Of course it did...I mean I'm no fucking Christian by any measure but the historical references are overwhelming; even in the Bible are can see through the language and through research gleam absolute historical references. Have you heard of Tacitus or Pliny the Younger or the references from Josephus whilst under the command of Vespasian.... |
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Post by besoeker3 on Jun 17, 2023 18:33:22 GMT
It didn't happen, there are no cotemporaneous records, either Jewish or Roman, to support the crucifixion, it's a story hatched up by some dodgy historians well after the non-event. Same as the flight of Jews from Egypt led by Moses....hogwash unsupported by Egyptian records. Of course it did...I mean I'm no fucking Christian by any measure but the historical references are overwhelming; even in the Bible are can see through the language and through research gleam absolute historical references. Have you heard of Tacitus or Pliny the Younger or the references from Josephus whilst under the command of Vespasian.... Read Bamber's book "The Christians". There was no mention of Jesus Christ until 70 AD. |
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Post by Toreador on Jun 17, 2023 18:38:43 GMT
It didn't happen, there are no cotemporaneous records, either Jewish or Roman, to support the crucifixion, it's a story hatched up by some dodgy historians well after the non-event. Same as the flight of Jews from Egypt led by Moses....hogwash unsupported by Egyptian records. Of course it did...I mean I'm no fucking Christian by any measure but the historical references are overwhelming; even in the Bible are can see through the language and through research gleam absolute historical references. Have you heard of Tacitus or Pliny the Younger or the references from Josephus whilst under the command of Vespasian.... Very easy to write history after the event or non-event. What research? |
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Post by thescotsman on Jun 17, 2023 19:30:34 GMT
Of course it did...I mean I'm no fucking Christian by any measure but the historical references are overwhelming; even in the Bible are can see through the language and through research gleam absolute historical references. Have you heard of Tacitus or Pliny the Younger or the references from Josephus whilst under the command of Vespasian.... Read Bamber's book "The Christians". There was no mention of Jesus Christ until 70 AD. When does this Bamber character assume the "Q" document was written? |
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Post by thescotsman on Jun 17, 2023 19:31:27 GMT
Of course it did...I mean I'm no fucking Christian by any measure but the historical references are overwhelming; even in the Bible are can see through the language and through research gleam absolute historical references. Have you heard of Tacitus or Pliny the Younger or the references from Josephus whilst under the command of Vespasian.... Very easy to write history after the event or non-event. What research? ....history generally is written after the event otherwise it's called prediction... |
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Post by besoeker3 on Jun 17, 2023 20:43:48 GMT
Read Bamber's book "The Christians". There was no mention of Jesus Christ until 70 AD. When does this Bamber character assume the "Q" document was written? Don't you know who he was? Bamber Gascoigne traces a clear path through a complicated history, exploring the motives, the passions, the fears and the achievements of the Christians. I suggest read his book. |
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Post by Tinculin on Jun 17, 2023 21:07:20 GMT
I disagree. The world has done very well for thousands of years without teaching children about genital mutilation being an acceptable practice. It hasn't gone very well for transgender women, if you take the rate of suicide among that group into account. And I don't support 'genital mutilation' per se. I support the opinion of qualified people. The second the medical professionals say it's not the way to go, I will be opposed to their having the operation. That groups suicide rate isn’t being helped by telling kids that mutilating their bodies is going to make everything okay. |
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Post by thescotsman on Jun 17, 2023 21:07:32 GMT
When does this Bamber character assume the "Q" document was written? Don't you know who he was? Bamber Gascoigne traces a clear path through a complicated history, exploring the motives, the passions, the fears and the achievements of the Christians. I suggest read his book. The "Q" document is the basis upon which the 3 synoptic Gospels are written...Mark is accepted as the first that can be accredited but [German] scholars think that this Gospel came from an earlier document which the call "Q" which there are no copies of - but (cutting a long story short) by analysing the other 3 it is inferred. Mark is generally accepted as being written around the year 70 (so about 40 years after Christ's death) which means that "Q" was earlier....therefore Mr. Gascoigne is merely parroting what is already known.
I don't have that book but I do have a shit load of books on the Roman Empire for the period 200BC up to 600AD including loads on the origins of the various proto-Christianities...of which there were a fuck ton....don't forget that what you have in the Bible is merely the final "Authorised" edition of a cannon of works agreed upon by Rome between 325 and 381.
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Post by Einhorn on Jun 17, 2023 21:12:52 GMT
It hasn't gone very well for transgender women, if you take the rate of suicide among that group into account. And I don't support 'genital mutilation' per se. I support the opinion of qualified people. The second the medical professionals say it's not the way to go, I will be opposed to their having the operation. That groups suicide rate isn’t being helped by telling kids that mutilating their bodies is going to make everything okay. Okay, the option is out there: follow your lead (you have no medical expertise whatsoever), or follow the lead of the medical professionals. I would never advise someone to have their genitals amputated; but I'm not so stupid as to think I know better than the professionals, or to prefer your advice over that of the medical profession. Even if the medical professionals are wrong on this, it would still have been more reasonable to listen to them than you. |
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Post by besoeker3 on Jun 17, 2023 21:13:47 GMT
Don't you know who he was? Bamber Gascoigne traces a clear path through a complicated history, exploring the motives, the passions, the fears and the achievements of the Christians. I suggest read his book. The "Q" document is the basis upon which the 3 synoptic Gospels are written...Mark is accepted as the first that can be accredited but [German] scholars think that this Gospel came from an earlier document which the call "Q" which there are no copies of - but (cutting a long story short) by analysing the other 3 it is inferred. Mark is generally accepted as being written around the year 70 (so about 40 years after Christ's death) which means that "Q" was earlier....therefore Mr. Gascoigne is merely parroting what is already known.
I don't have that book but I do have a shit load of books on the Roman Empire for the period 200BC up to 600AD including loads on the origins of the various proto-Christianities...of which there were a fuck ton....don't forget that what you have in the Bible is merely the final "Authorised" edition of a cannon of works agreed upon by Rome between 325 and 381.
Read his book. |
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Post by thescotsman on Jun 17, 2023 21:31:15 GMT
The "Q" document is the basis upon which the 3 synoptic Gospels are written...Mark is accepted as the first that can be accredited but [German] scholars think that this Gospel came from an earlier document which the call "Q" which there are no copies of - but (cutting a long story short) by analysing the other 3 it is inferred. Mark is generally accepted as being written around the year 70 (so about 40 years after Christ's death) which means that "Q" was earlier....therefore Mr. Gascoigne is merely parroting what is already known.
I don't have that book but I do have a shit load of books on the Roman Empire for the period 200BC up to 600AD including loads on the origins of the various proto-Christianities...of which there were a fuck ton....don't forget that what you have in the Bible is merely the final "Authorised" edition of a cannon of works agreed upon by Rome between 325 and 381.
Read his book. Thanks for the tip but I don't think so. I'm a bit beyond things with "Brief History" in the title and looking at the synopsis there's not much there to grapple with... What interests me is the development of Christianity and why and how it developed, especially within an occupation environment. Also, how and why it developed and supplanted all the accepted social norms to become the authorised "religion" of an Empire. The thing to get your head around that there was no organised religion within the empire (other than the Cult of the Emperor) until this thing called "christianity" started to spread. It spread so rapidly subverting and supplanting all other cults and methods of worship and sacrifice in all corners of the Empire.
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Post by Tinculin on Jun 17, 2023 21:40:06 GMT
That groups suicide rate isn’t being helped by telling kids that mutilating their bodies is going to make everything okay. Okay, the option is out there: follow your lead (you have no medical expertise whatsoever), or follow the lead of the medical professionals. I would never advise someone to have their genitals amputated; but I'm not so stupid as to think I know better than the professionals, or to prefer your advice over that of the medical profession. Even if the medical professionals are wrong on this, it would still have been more reasonable to listen to them than you. There is no long term data on this, so tell me Darling, have the number of suicide rates increased or decreased amongst trans people in the past 20 years? You refer to expert medical advice, what studies are you referring to? |
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Post by besoeker3 on Jun 17, 2023 21:51:15 GMT
Thanks for the tip but I don't think so. I'm a bit beyond things with "Brief History" in the title and looking at the synopsis there's not much there to grapple with... Actually there a lot more if you read his book. |
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