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Post by Orac on May 31, 2023 18:45:23 GMT
But, Pat, that's not where the conversation started. The conversation started over whether border control and membership of the EU were related Related in fact, or related in argument…? Related in fact. You can't stay in the EU and have control of your borders |
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Post by patman post on May 31, 2023 18:54:58 GMT
Related in fact, or related in argument…? Related in fact. You can't stay in the EU and have control of your borders So if that was a real concern, why are the numbers of legitimate immigrants now larger than they ever were while while the UK was an EU member? My take is that it wasn’t a problem in the real world that was down to the EU, but only a manufactured problem in Farage’s farago of anti-EU lies and misrepresentation… |
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Post by Orac on May 31, 2023 19:17:14 GMT
Related in fact. You can't stay in the EU and have control of your borders So if that was a real concern, why are the numbers of legitimate immigrants now larger than they ever were while while the UK was an EU member? My take is that it wasn’t a problem in the real world that was down to the EU, but only a manufactured problem in Farage’s farago of anti-EU lies and misrepresentation… Because the government is not using the discretion it has to reduce immigration. Farage is is correct though - because you can't control anything without first having the discretion to control it. This is a point is so obvious, i feel like i'm being facetious by answering it plainly |
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Post by sheepy on May 31, 2023 20:28:58 GMT
As usual Farage is trying to pressure them to get on with it, which one might think by now he had learnt that is never going to happen, they make the laws they have sovereignty and had a huge majority and they squandered every bit of it.
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Post by Dan Dare on May 31, 2023 20:49:15 GMT
Related in fact, or related in argument…? Related in fact. You can't stay in the EU and have control of your borders But there are borders and there are borders. As a 'front-line' state Poland for example has been strongly encouraged by the EU to secure its eastern border, in fact it even called for, and received, assistance from the UK in doing so.
As long as the eastern border is secured, and appropriate control measures are in place to prevent intrusion via the back door, then Poland has complete control over its borders. Even as an EU member.
It's not immediately obvious why the UK, as an island nation, could not have adopted a similar policy.
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Post by Orac on May 31, 2023 20:54:23 GMT
Related in fact. You can't stay in the EU and have control of your borders But there are borders and there are borders. As a 'front-line' state Poland for example has been strongly encouraged by the EU to secure its eastern border, in fact it even called for, and received, assistance from the UK in doing so.
As long as the eastern border is secured, and appropriate control measures are in place to prevent intrusion via the back door, then Poland has complete control over its borders. Even as an EU member.
It's not immediately obvious why the UK, as an island nation, could not have adopted a similar policy.
That's a non EU border. I believe Poland ended up in a bit of a dispute about its reluctance to take (for instance) islamic refugees. |
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Post by Pacifico on May 31, 2023 21:35:46 GMT
Where are you getting this claim from?. The Ashcroft polling showed that the most important issue (for those that voted Leave) was that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK by UK politicians - controlling immigration was a secondary concern. Controlling immigration may have been a secondary concern, but it was enough of a concern to tip the vote (52-48) in favour of leave. The idea that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK by UK politicians was as much an idea that had as much actual basis in reality as the immigration argument. But that’s all done and dusted. Now both positions have recently come together brilliantly — the UK’s decisions and efforts to reduce immigration are all under UK control and we’ve passed our own laws about it. So we claim to need to reduce immigration, but we also have to import people to work in sectors with vacancies, so let’s pay some of the most sorely needed £10k to come here. What’s so confusing that the electorate can’t understand why the UK is now better off out…? I don't see why you are confused. The UK now has control over immigration - the current government believes in high levels of immigration. Therefore the electorate will judge this government at the next election. Which is as it should be, surely?..  |
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Post by Handyman on Jun 1, 2023 6:20:26 GMT
I forgot — the UK has also reclaimed its sovereignty by putting UK on its cars and changing the British passport cover to blue. All vast upgrades to the lives of British citizens… The GB sticker has been replaced with UK to include NI, also "If you're driving your vehicle in Spain, Cyprus or Malta, you must display a UK sticker" also it means it prevents Police in other parts of the EU who may take action against you as I understand it, if you have renewed your GB Driving Licence recently that now has the UK logo, British Passports are now blue to distinguish at a glance from EU Passports , because thankfully we are no longer part of the EU |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 27, 2023 8:25:14 GMT
Right about NatWest and Coutts too.
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