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Post by piglet on Oct 25, 2022 10:46:54 GMT
How can people like Johnson, Truss, May, and Cameron get to lead the tory Party? There is something organisationally wrong. Johnson was a wrong un from the start. There must have been warning flags from the others, like May. But they got the job.
My theory is that there is an inherent complacency leading to the dissolution of the UK. It is that bad, you cant rely on the left for anything. And the complacency is a simple schizophrenic approach, like Dylan on the magic roundabout, brought about by wealth, bad education, i include universities, especially them, and a feeling, unfounded, that everything will turn out well in the end. And the cancerous creep of socialism into the Tory party.
We need a doctor, a hard headed doctor that will cut out the malignancy, and act in the good of the country, not the party. Oh, he or she wont last two minutes before being dumped, like Truss, who was doing the right thing at the wrong time. And delivered it in a disastrous way.
Sunak looks like a doctor to me. Has he the wit to change the Tories, save the country and not get sacked.
We need a political psychopath, not a weak pathetic lefty slug like Johnson, May and Cameron.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2022 11:00:52 GMT
Well it's worse than I thought if only a psychopath can save the Tory Party and the country.
Putin, our country needs you. lol
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 25, 2022 11:55:52 GMT
My diagnosis would be that the parliamentary party has lost contact with the grassroots membership and its core constituency in Middle England to an even greater extent that the Labour Party has lost contact with its own.
My prescription would be to dismantle the centralised party apparatus which only has relevance within the Westminster bubble and return the function of nomination and selection of candidates to the constituency organisations.
Of course that is likely to result in an almost total absence of Rishis and Pritis and very much reduced numbers of Lizes and Pennys, but there we are.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 6, 2022 20:28:18 GMT
My diagnosis would be that the parliamentary party has lost contact with the grassroots membership and its core constituency in Middle England to an even greater extent that the Labour Party has lost contact with its own. My prescription would be to dismantle the centralised party apparatus which only has relevance within the Westminster bubble and return the function of nomination and selection of candidates to the constituency organisations. Of course that is likely to result in an almost total absence of Rishis and Pritis and very much reduced numbers of Lizes and Pennys, but there we are. You don't suppose it is the other way around? I do not like to say this, but the evidence backs it up. I spent loads of time at one time on Con home as I had a few bans so I got bored and felt like a change of scene and used to chat to them quite frequently on load of stuff. Anyway, what I picked up was they were obsessed with data. They constantly used the data supplied by pro marketing type organisations where say you ask them how do I market my produce and they run loads of polls to find out who your customers are what they think, what age, sex, race, geography and well just about everything that matters. You can also see there is professional training too and candidates learn how to wave their hands about far more than normal people when talking. So supposing these people are those ones who elicit most votes. I mean it is tough as an independent amateur to compete against their trained candidates and whoever you run, even a professor, will only notch up a few hundred votes. It took years for the UKIP to break in the market. |
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Post by Orac on Nov 9, 2022 12:50:43 GMT
The professionalisation of politics into a kind of managerial / marketing task has been a complete disaster. A disaster so grave it now looks like resulting in our collapse. We are still trying to vote out Tony Blair and failing.
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Post by borchester on Nov 9, 2022 22:53:53 GMT
There is not much wrong with the Tories, except that there is not a lot to be Tory about.
The Tories are the party of Brexit and low taxes. Brexit is done and dusted and there is only so far they can cut taxes without the money markets throwing a queanie and the pound going through the floor.
The Labour party is the party of Remain and high taxes, but it realises that rejoining the EU is a no no while going into an election with a promise to increase taxes will mean years and years on the back benches.
Effectively, there is not a lot of difference between the two parties
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2022 5:07:35 GMT
There is not much wrong with the Tories, except that there is not a lot to be Tory about.
The Tories are the party of Brexit and low taxes. Brexit is done and dusted and there is only so far they can cut taxes without the money markets throwing a queanie and the pound going through the floor.
The Labour party is the party of Remain and high taxes, but it realises that rejoining the EU is a no no while going into an election with a promise to increase taxes will mean years and years on the back benches.
Effectively, there is not a lot of difference between the two parties
Post of the week. 🤣 "The Tories are the party of Brexit and low taxes". |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 10, 2022 10:47:47 GMT
...Effectively, there is not a lot of difference between the two parties
In practice there never can be.
I call it the shopping list analogy: Let's say you go shopping with £100 in your pocket. That's your budget, you have no more money.
You have to buy the essentials: Toilet paper, soap, food etc. After which, if you're lucky, you might have a few pounds left over to spend on something you'd like as opposed to stuff that you need.
And it's the same with governments: Having met their obligations the amount of discretionary spend that they have left is relatively tiny.
So while they all make grandiose promises they can only ever really nibble around the edges.
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Post by Orac on Nov 10, 2022 13:26:27 GMT
The inevitable end point of client group politics.
The government ends up with no discretion and no power and those in its jurisdiction loose self rule. Then the whole thing folds in as the client groups can no longer kept on side with payments.
Running out of other people's money
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Post by bancroft on Nov 10, 2022 13:34:09 GMT
There is not much wrong with the Tories, except that there is not a lot to be Tory about.
The Tories are the party of Brexit and low taxes. Brexit is done and dusted and there is only so far they can cut taxes without the money markets throwing a queanie and the pound going through the floor.
The Labour party is the party of Remain and high taxes, but it realises that rejoining the EU is a no no while going into an election with a promise to increase taxes will mean years and years on the back benches.
Effectively, there is not a lot of difference between the two parties
I would say the Tories are 40% party of business and 60% party of traditional culture and were mostly behind Brexit though less the business aspect. The low tax part is mainly to keep Business faction on-side and willing to cough up for elections. Labour leadership has accepted Brexit though most of the the party and 55-55% are Remainers. Labour realise they cannot fight an election on Brexit grounds. Labour traditionally believe in higher taxes to pay their workers in unions more and so keep the unions being willing to fund elections. The Tories have alienated some of their cultural vote whether HS2 or fracking so some might go Lib Dem. Labour are promising a revolution green tech and green jobs, no detail on the jobs so suspect an army of clip-board inspectors ready to impose fines over domestic EPC ratings under guise of fuel efficiency and extending the nanny state into new areas. |
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Post by sheepy on Nov 13, 2022 23:42:13 GMT
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 14, 2022 8:01:02 GMT
Labour are promising a revolution green tech and green jobs, no detail on the jobs so suspect an army of clip-board inspectors ready to impose fines over domestic EPC ratings under guise of fuel efficiency and extending the nanny state into new areas. LOL - nothing really changes. Labour were making the same claims 50 years ago and they failed to deliver then.. ....maybe this time is will be different..  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2022 5:37:09 GMT
Labour are promising a revolution green tech and green jobs, no detail on the jobs so suspect an army of clip-board inspectors ready to impose fines over domestic EPC ratings under guise of fuel efficiency and extending the nanny state into new areas. LOL - nothing really changes. Labour were making the same claims 50 years ago and they failed to deliver then.. ....maybe this time is will be different.. Yes 50 years ago. 😂 Labour was way ahead of its time, technology then was archaic compared to today, there weren't even mobile phones. You can only do what the prevailing technology allows. |
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Post by bancroft on Nov 15, 2022 19:22:34 GMT
Curious to see what will be in the new budget, red tops keep making spurious claims.
If the Tories get it wrong they will lose the next election.
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Post by borchester on Nov 15, 2022 21:22:35 GMT
Curious to see what will be in the new budget, red tops keep making spurious claims. If the Tories get it wrong they will lose the next election.
Incredibly the Tories are closing the gap, although it has to be said that at 21%, it is a hell of a gap. But if even two uninspiring lumps such as Sunak and Hunt can make a difference, then Starmer is going to have a fight on his hands
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