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Post by sheepy on May 21, 2023 8:51:21 GMT
Absolutely correct. How on earth can Brexit succeed when politicians on both sides of the house are determined to undermine it. I know Sunak voted to leave but he was never a committed Brexiteer, he's a globalist, like Starmer he likes the WEF and the EU. The fact that he is keeping thousands of EU laws that just months ago he promised to scrap and he seems unconcerned about immigration, is testament to that. I'm tempted to ask, does he know there's a general election next year. If Brexit was about Global Britain, then why can't a Brexiteer be a globalist? I guess you will be voting Boris then? |
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Post by Red Rackham on May 21, 2023 8:55:40 GMT
Absolutely correct. How on earth can Brexit succeed when politicians on both sides of the house are determined to undermine it. I know Sunak voted to leave but he was never a committed Brexiteer, he's a globalist, like Starmer he likes the WEF and the EU. The fact that he is keeping thousands of EU laws that just months ago he promised to scrap and he seems unconcerned about immigration, is testament to that. I'm tempted to ask, does he know there's a general election next year. If Brexit was about Global Britain, then why can't a Brexiteer be a globalist? How can someone who is keeping thousands of EU laws and is relaxed about mass immigration from the EU, possibly be regarded as a Brexiteer? People voted for Brexit because they want this country governed from Westminster, not from Belgium or Switzerland. |
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Post by Vinny on May 21, 2023 8:59:59 GMT
We pay the taxes, it is the job of the politicians to do as we say or face political axes.
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Post by jonksy on May 21, 2023 10:02:51 GMT
Yes we did sunshine. And there were more of us who voted to leave than those who voted to stay. And we were not old farts who didn't know what we were voting for and NO we were not led by lies and bullshit. Like you remnants try to make out. It's called making the correct choice. Just fuck off with the name calling, right. What name calling sunshine? |
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Post by Dan Dare on May 21, 2023 10:07:09 GMT
We pay the taxes, it is the job of the politicians to do as we say or face political axes. The only problem with that argument is that a clear majority of taxpayers now believe it was a mistake to leave the EU: 53% versus 33% who still think it was the right decision.
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Post by sheepy on May 21, 2023 10:10:00 GMT
We pay the taxes, it is the job of the politicians to do as we say or face political axes. The only problem with that argument is that a clear majority of taxpayers now believe it was a mistake to leave the EU: 53% versus 33% who still think it was the right decision.
Would that be the same 53% before the referendum per chance? Or would that be the same 53% who said they would also beat the Tories pretending they were for Brexit? |
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Post by Einhorn on May 21, 2023 10:11:20 GMT
Your posts are an enigma, Sheepy. I've always believed that they are secret messages for the highly initiated. The above is no exception. You appear to be having a different conversation. Beats flowers and chocolates darling. It certainly does, Champ. The union is too fragile for referendums. Is Reform UK pro-Union? If it is, don't believe them when they tell you they will hold regular referendums. The UK can have Scotland, or the UK can have referendums. The UK can't have both. |
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Post by Dan Dare on May 21, 2023 10:11:35 GMT
sheepy - Don't know, you'd have to ask YouGov, who conducted the poll. My uneducated guess would be that they used a different sample.
It's actually quite striking that even if all the don't knows were closet Leavers, the Rejoiners would still be in a clear majority, a significantly larger one than that which won the referendum.
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Post by Vinny on May 21, 2023 10:13:02 GMT
We pay the taxes, it is the job of the politicians to do as we say or face political axes. The only problem with that argument is that a clear majority of taxpayers now believe it was a mistake to leave the EU: 53% versus 33% who still think it was the right decision.
Meaningless poll waffle. Polls can be shaped with leading questions. The important thing, the vote, we've already done that Dan and you LOST. Get over it. Brexit is working. The ONS Pink Book stats prove it. Membership of the EU failed. Massive industrial decline occurred whilst we were in and you do not care because you got to live and work in the EU. In case you haven't noticed, it's still possible to migrate. |
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Post by andrewbrown on May 21, 2023 10:15:44 GMT
If Brexit was about Global Britain, then why can't a Brexiteer be a globalist? How can someone who is keeping thousands of EU laws and is relaxed about mass immigration from the EU, possibly be regarded as a Brexiteer? People voted for Brexit because they want this country governed from Westminster, not from Belgium or Switzerland. We are governed from Westminster. I think the issue is your rather narrow interpretation of what Brexit meant to you, and your belief that everyone else shares the same vision. However, one vision promoted (and I accept that other visions were offered) is that rather than being a part of the EU, we were going to replace that with other deals with the rest of the world. Probably Boris was making an assumption on a US deal, but that was unrealistic, so we've now pivoted to the Pacific instead. This was what was known as "Global Britain". Now that this is where the government is moving to, you are complaining that your vision of Brexit, which seems to be cutting us away from everyone else, is not being delivered, and you have somehow come to the conclusion that therefore Sunak isn't a Brexiteer. To me that is a somewhat naive conclusion, which surprises me of you a little. |
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Post by sheepy on May 21, 2023 10:16:35 GMT
Beats flowers and chocolates darling. It certainly does, Champ. The union is too fragile for referendums. Is Reform UK pro-Union? If it is, don't believe them when they tell you they will hold regular referendums. The UK can have Scotland, or the UK can have referendums. The UK can't have both. I will take the referendums any day and produce a genuinely informed public, tough ask but I like a challenge. |
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Post by Dan Dare on May 21, 2023 10:16:41 GMT
I didn't lose Vinny, I'd already made my personal Brexit long before the referendum was merely a gleam in Nige's eye.
It's my considered opinion that the British people are the biggest losers and that history will record Brexit as a geo-strategic blunder on a par with the loss of the American colonies and the First World War.
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Post by Einhorn on May 21, 2023 10:20:08 GMT
It certainly does, Champ. The union is too fragile for referendums. Is Reform UK pro-Union? If it is, don't believe them when they tell you they will hold regular referendums. The UK can have Scotland, or the UK can have referendums. The UK can't have both. I will take the referendums any day and produce a genuinely informed public, tough ask but I like a challenge. Of course, you will take referendums any day. There are lots who think like you, too. But if a pro-union government is in power, you won't be offered one. Referendums are an existential threat to the UK. |
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Post by sheepy on May 21, 2023 10:24:13 GMT
I will take the referendums any day and produce a genuinely informed public, tough ask but I like a challenge. Of course, you will take referendums any day. There are lots who think like you, too. But if a pro-union government is in power, you won't be offered one. Referendums are an existential threat to the UK. Yeah but they all said the same about other referendums but we still managed to get them and they didn't always work out on behalf of the Westminster party either. So never fear populists are always on the case. |
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Post by see2 on May 21, 2023 10:28:20 GMT
The only problem with that argument is that a clear majority of taxpayers now believe it was a mistake to leave the EU: 53% versus 33% who still think it was the right decision.
Meaningless poll waffle. Polls can be shaped with leading questions. The important thing, the vote, we've already done that Dan and you LOST. Get over it. Brexit is working. The ONS Pink Book stats prove it. Membership of the EU failed. Massive industrial decline occurred whilst we were in and you do not care because you got to live and work in the EU. In case you haven't noticed, it's still possible to migrate. Membership of the EU did not fail. The reality is that the UK continued to fail thanks no doubt to the dominance of Conservative governments. Sooner or later the UK will have to stop blaming everyone and everything else for its own failures. |
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