|
Post by Red Rackham on May 22, 2023 0:39:37 GMT
What! That looks like pond water, are you seriously saying that is what comes out of your tap?
Dont talk bollox.
|
|
|
Post by buccaneer on May 22, 2023 0:47:09 GMT
Which does not answer my question. Do you think that we would have had a referendum on EU membership if people had not voted for UKIP? No I don't, which is a shame. But there are very few issues that can gather that sort of support. My view is that a vote for the libdems would just be another vote for the Tories. I don't think it proves your argument that people don't want taxes raised. Most people want the rich to pay more tax. So I'm voting Labour because I do expect them to raise taxes and repair the damage done to the NHS. I hope they would also sort the railways and the water, but I'm a pragmatist. You do realise Starmer believes the NHS needs 'reform' to the extent the private sector now must support the NHS. He doesn't believe like you, that merely throwing money at the NHS will be enough to fix it.
|
|
|
Post by buccaneer on May 22, 2023 0:50:08 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on May 22, 2023 0:57:12 GMT
I'm not having amazon cookies in my machine. I cant believe that is your tap water, your drinking water. Unless you live in a swamp with no access to utilities?..
|
|
|
Post by buccaneer on May 22, 2023 4:11:05 GMT
I'm not having amazon cookies in my machine. I cant believe that is your tap water, your drinking water. Unless you live in a swamp with no access to utilities?.. It's your tap water Red. Don't forget, in some regions the UK's water (8.7%) is owned by the Chinese. Wuhanoooo ! Up to 70% of the UK's water industry is owned by foreign investment firms, private equity, pension firms and businesses lodged in tax havens. www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/30/more-than-70-per-cent-english-water-industry-foreign-ownershipDo you really know what's in your tap water Red?
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on May 22, 2023 6:21:32 GMT
That is not the claim for the Laffer curve. It claims that if you raise tax above their given level you lose more tax than you gain. But every time tax climbs above their given number they just raise the amount. The Laffer curve is now the Laughter curve. So you really believe that a 100% tax rate would generate more tax receipts than a 50% tax rate?. Any actual evidence or peer reviewed research to support this? I'll give a recent example. The Tories have introduced a windfall tax on oil and gas production from the North Sea. As a result the exploration companies have cut output, investment and jobs - is this going to lead to higher tax receipts? Oh yes in fact I think that while we're being ridiculous we should make it 150% .
|
|
|
Post by sheepy on May 22, 2023 6:37:02 GMT
Absolute crap, blaming the electorate for failings of government, who tell them they will fix everything, when they cannot even fix the basics for living standards. While dodgy companies rob them blind in rip off Britain. Absolute crap eh? So what happened with the planned increase in NI to increase funding for social care / NHS? Scrapped because of public outcry. Why were T HREE MILLION people operating Public Service Companies to avoid the paying tax at PAYE levels? Then they cried like babies when IR35 stopped them... and the likes of Gary Lineker even go to court to avoid paying it at PAYE levels lol. Look at what Starmer has said so far... he is going to fund the world via windfall taxes and scrapping non-dom status... lol. So who is talking crap... it is you sir, you don't even understand the people you share the country with lol. Well we will see about that come election time then, who understands who.
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on May 22, 2023 6:40:06 GMT
You are wrong about public support for raising taxes, every poll I can find says there is overall support for increasing taxes. "Fifty two per cent of voters support higher taxes and public spending, and just 6 per cent want them cut." www.newstatesman.com/chart-of-the-day/2022/09/public-support-tax-and-spendPoll of millionaires: 72% support increasing taxes on wealth to help fund public services and the cost of living crisis patrioticmillionaires.uk/latest-news/new-poll-wealthiest-6-percent-of-brits-support-a-wealth-taxYour other point on Labour not being willing to either is shown to be wrong by your own admission that they did indeed increase taxes albeit you claim by stealth (others might say targeted) The big problem we have with public services in this country is the ever growing wealth gap which has left more people unable to pay tax fewer people in the middle incomes and more money with those earning 80k plus a year or simply making money by having money. Tax has not kept up with this change under this Tory government (Surprise surprise). I'm voting Labour to see if that does get adjusted a bit. My point wasn't that you invented the claim. It was merely that you used the term to blur the reality that Labour did, do and will raise taxes. That's historical, I will go through it if you wish, but I'm pretty sure you know how Labour got a terrible reputation in the 70's. How New Labour reversed that and stayed in power for 13 years, how Corbyn took over Labour and threatened to return it to those bad days. I don't think it has anything to do with tax rates which are generally higher than ours and where as you say social democratic parties often hold power. You might be right, but the fact is tax has to come from those with enough money to pay it and in the UK the wealth divide is very evident. That depends on whether you see a slippery slope or just a step. Personally I find gross exaggeration makes a poor argument. You are right in one thing, as we find ways to keep people alive from evermore diseases the cost will keep climbing and at some point we will either have to accept a two tier service where only the wealthy get certain drugs, treatments etc. Or that we consider the health of our fellow humans more important than our 4th holiday in the Seychelles. You are right, we have to stop kicking the can down the road and make a decision.
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on May 22, 2023 6:40:36 GMT
Absolutely no idea what you are talking about then Really? I asked you amongst other things why we are paying ridiculous standing charges and can you explain the purpose of myriad energy companies that produce nothing are useless middlemen all operating in a so called competitive market one of the things privatisation was sold on. You paid standing charges when they were Nationalised - are standing charges from private companies somehow worse than standing charges from nationalised ones? As for your other point, it's called competition. When you go to fill up your car you have a choice of filling stations from a range of different companies. They dont all have their own refineries and oil wells - they use the same resource and package it differently.
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on May 22, 2023 6:45:31 GMT
So you really believe that a 100% tax rate would generate more tax receipts than a 50% tax rate?. Any actual evidence or peer reviewed research to support this? I'll give a recent example. The Tories have introduced a windfall tax on oil and gas production from the North Sea. As a result the exploration companies have cut output, investment and jobs - is this going to lead to higher tax receipts? Oh yes in fact I think that while we're being ridiculous we should make it 150% . What is ridiculous about it - you have just told me that the Laffer Curve does not exist and that people do not change behavour in response to tax levels (the Laffer Curve). OK - forget 100% as that is totally ridiculous. How about something that the Labour Party tried before, a 98% tax rate. have a guess why that was scrapped. I'll give you a hint - it was the wrong side of the Laffer Curve.
|
|
|
Post by sheepy on May 22, 2023 7:53:13 GMT
I still don't give a flying feck who says what, the water is poisoned, sort it out. Earn your pay for once you useless barstewards.
|
|
|
Post by wapentake on May 22, 2023 8:27:14 GMT
Really? I asked you amongst other things why we are paying ridiculous standing charges and can you explain the purpose of myriad energy companies that produce nothing are useless middlemen all operating in a so called competitive market one of the things privatisation was sold on. You paid standing charges when they were Nationalised - are standing charges from private companies somehow worse than standing charges from nationalised ones? As for your other point, it's called competition. When you go to fill up your car you have a choice of filling stations from a range of different companies. They dont all have their own refineries and oil wells - they use the same resource and package it differently. Yes massively worse,and I’ll ask again do you know why?
|
|
|
Post by see2 on May 22, 2023 8:42:40 GMT
"the mythical 'rich'" Your posts get dafter by the day. Edit: Here's a UK sample. For the first time in 14 years, the number of billionaires on the list fell, by six to 171. But those who stayed in the billionaires’ club still saw their wealth grow by close to £31 billion.This is exactly what I mean - the gullible look at the Sunday Times Rich List and think that there is all this wealth waiting to be taxed. However if they had any sense they would realise that most of the people on that list are not UK citizens - therefore the odds on squeezing them until the pips squeak are somewhat limited.. "squeezing them until the pips squeak" language used in order for you to not face up to the reality, you are a political coward proven by your subservient language. Defending these people who can make fantastic increases in wealth while just about everyone and everything else is being squeezed until the pips squeak, proves your position is idiotic. The information I posted is just those at the very top, there are probably millions more who don't quite make the billionaire bracket.
|
|
|
Post by see2 on May 22, 2023 8:51:39 GMT
The trouble with this Laffer curve theory is that is just not true. That is the most interesting claim of the day on this forum. Do you have any actual evidence that tax rates do not influence lifestyle changes. If so I would like to see it because it flies in the face of every economic text that I have ever read. I heard Laffer on TV explaining his curve. It is based on an ever decreasing tax level that will lead to more jobs and trickle-down wealth. It is basically make the rich richer and we will all be richer. The same old right-wing lie. It was actually being tried at that time. The new jobs never arrived, the poor became poorer but as usual the rich got richer. Laffer is either an idiot or he is a typical right-winger wanting the rich to get richer. Or maybe he is a bit of both.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 22, 2023 9:52:59 GMT
3 min test. the left is British tap water - Hertfordshire to be specific, the right is bottled water. A close up of the tap water. Very droll. Someone might believe you.
|
|