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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2023 13:09:48 GMT
Newsnight: Asks “Economically, the UK would have been better off staying in, wouldn’t it?” Nigel Farage: Says he “doesn’t think that for a minute”, but blames the Tories who have been "worse than the European Commission at running the economy." What he does think is that " we haven’t actually benefited economically from Brexit. What Brexit’s proved, I’m afraid is that our politicians are about as useless as the commissioners in Brussels were." IMO, this throws us back to the 7-year old question: What are the economic benefits of Brexit? That is, this Brexit which is the Tories' version of Brexit. Is it really that the Tories are unable to make this Brexit work or is this Brexit intrinsically economically unworkable?Brexit works quite well for 168 countries in the world. Apparently, there are 195 countries in the world. 167 are non EU countries so they do not have to deal with Brexit - ergo, your statement is not applicable 27 are EU countries so they also do not have to deal with Brexit - ergo, your statement is not applicable 1 is a non EU country. This country is the only one that has to deal with Brexit. And Brexit is not working well for this country. So. How is it that according to you, Brexit works well for 168 countries in the world? |
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Post by andrewbrown on May 16, 2023 13:14:52 GMT
If the Tories were that shite at Brexit, one wonders why Farage didn't oppose them in 2019, but rather stood down to allow them to win, then complain afterwards.
Typical of Farage. Turd of the highest order.
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Post by Vinny on May 16, 2023 13:15:44 GMT
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on May 16, 2023 13:20:44 GMT
"Brexit is a failure." Quote from BBC Newsnight interview last night. www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nigel-farage-admits-brexit-has-failed_uk_64632cf6e4b094269bb64de7Of course he blames the Brexit government for the failure of his imaginary promises. At least he can admit it...he isnt running for office and doesnt have to continue to lie. Who will be next? David Davis? Michael Gove or that sock puppet David ( now lord) Frost? At least some of us could see through the media garbage. Welcome Nige. Just FFS keep your mouth shut. I spotted the flaw a long time back. The arguments about EU mismanagement were probably true, but that does not equal UK can do it better. Brexit could have worked with the right management. The problem was in practice we were never going to get the right management. We re now running ourselves and it shows.
Wad do we do? 
I know, lets do some more fighting and make more guns and then send them to our local Nazis.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 16, 2023 13:36:18 GMT
We're not supplying Russia.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2023 21:04:58 GMT
The Tory created Office For Budget Responsibility has estimated that Brexit will create a 4% hit to the economy, the equivelant of £40 Billion in tax revenues in the short to medium term.
One in five LEAVE voters would now vote REMAIN
The UK economy is the only G7 economy back to its pre-pandemic size. Business investment has lagged behind comparable economies.
The biggest laugh of the week was Suella Braverman telling the right wing Tory populist rally in London that "we need to teach our own people how to pick fruit"
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Post by Pacifico on May 16, 2023 21:11:20 GMT
The Tory created Office For Budget Responsibility has estimated that Brexit will create a 4% hit to the economy, No they did not - they estimated a 4% hit to productivity. One of the criteria they were basing this forecast on was: We had assumed that the Government’s new post-Brexit migration regime would reduce net inward migration to the UK (see Box 2.4 of our March 2020 EFO). But in our November 2022 and March 2023 forecasts we revised up our projections for net migration to reflect evidence of sustained strength in inward migration since the post-Brexit migration regime was introduced. We now assume net migration settles at 245,000 a year in the medium term (based on the ONS 2020-based interim migration projection). This compares to 129,000 in that year in our March 2022 forecast (based on the 2018-based ONS zero net EU migration variant).
Immigration currently running at well over 500,000 a year...  |
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Post by Vinny on May 16, 2023 23:00:43 GMT
The Tory created Office For Budget Responsibility has estimated that Brexit will create a 4% hit to the economy, the equivelant of £40 Billion in tax revenues in the short to medium term. One in five LEAVE voters would now vote REMAIN The UK economy is the only G7 economy back to its pre-pandemic size. Business investment has lagged behind comparable economies. The biggest laugh of the week was Suella Braverman telling the right wing Tory populist rally in London that "we need to teach our own people how to pick fruit" And yet the amount of exports we sell to the EU has seen an above inflation rise. As a result, it hasn't produced the hit to the economy you think it has. We're doing fine. Stop conflating other things with Brexit problems. The whole of the civilised world is reeling from the pandemic and the economic fallout from the war in Ukraine. |
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Post by oracle75 on May 17, 2023 5:59:59 GMT
BBC News - Vauxhall-maker says UK needs to change its Brexit deal www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65612295It's that old investment issue again. And as usual i doubt anyone in this Brexit government will do anything about it. Except making excuses. |
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Post by wapentake on May 17, 2023 6:21:02 GMT
The only problems related to Brexit are that the civil service never wanted it,the Westminster bubble in the main didn’t either but some pretended to in order to be elected. The common market wasn’t a bad idea till it morphed in to a political union and people like Blair,Major and others offered us up without any reference to our wishes,those seeking our return are in thrall to a union that democratically? requires you to carry on voting till you vote in the correct way.  There’s no recognition that we existed quite happily for years outside this construct. |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2023 19:54:22 GMT
The only problems related to Brexit are that the civil service never wanted it,the Westminster bubble in the main didn’t either but some pretended to in order to be elected. The common market wasn’t a bad idea till it morphed in to a political union and people like Blair,Major and others offered us up without any reference to our wishes,those seeking our return are in thrall to a union that democratically? requires you to carry on voting till you vote in the correct way. There’s no recognition that we existed quite happily for years outside this construct. The problem with Brexit is Brexit itself and this is exacerbated by its supporters' fundamentalist view of how it should be implemented. Brexit gives precedence to this nebulous concept of taking back control over economic prosperity. Yet it is arguably, by its very nature alone, bad for the economy since it automatically raises trade barriers and creates trade friction. But it's been argued before that Brexit is more food for the soul than nourishment for the body: a fundamental Brexit principle which fundamentalist supporters insist must be applied to its implementation. Compromise, flexibility and pragmatism are crucial to economic prosperity; but for Brexit fundamentalists, a strict, cultish adherence to these concepts of "sovr'ntee" and taking back control can and will bring about the same economic prosperity and so must take precedence over everything else. That's the problem. |
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Post by oracle75 on May 17, 2023 20:15:58 GMT
I hear there are whispers of anorher effort to renegotiate that wonderful agreem4nt.
First NI, now migration, that very deal the UK once had and trashed.
How can a sovereign country sign agreements, celebrate a triumph and then when they dont work, ask for changes, and then be taken seriously?
It will be agriculture next...as predicted, farmers are seriously struggling with higher input costs and fewer workers.
Frankly it was a self inflicted pain waiting to happen. The only question was in what order.
There was nothing wrong with being a member of the EU. There were however many benefits, now lost. For exam0le the UK now has to bwgvand pay to be included in the Horizon Project. But still outside Copernicus.
And all you talk about is one quarter of the UK economy....trade. what of the other 3/4...services?
I am happy to discuss the pros and cons, but ISTM that all you can talk about is a small part of the UK economy and ignore all the rest of what membership included.
I really cant take that limited roundabout seriously. It really is so niche as to be pointless.
The idea if voting against the Dublin Agreement and then Leavers begging the EU to replace it is pathetic.
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Post by wapentake on May 17, 2023 20:28:53 GMT
The only problems related to Brexit are that the civil service never wanted it,the Westminster bubble in the main didn’t either but some pretended to in order to be elected. The common market wasn’t a bad idea till it morphed in to a political union and people like Blair,Major and others offered us up without any reference to our wishes,those seeking our return are in thrall to a union that democratically? requires you to carry on voting till you vote in the correct way. There’s no recognition that we existed quite happily for years outside this construct. The problem with Brexit is Brexit itself and this is exacerbated by its supporters' fundamentalist view of how it should be implemented. Brexit gives precedence to this nebulous concept of taking back control over economic prosperity. Yet it is arguably, by its very nature alone, bad for the economy since it automatically raises trade barriers and creates trade friction. But it's been argued before that Brexit is more food for the soul than nourishment for the body: a fundamental Brexit principle which fundamentalist supporters insist must be applied to its implementation. Compromise, flexibility and pragmatism are crucial to economic prosperity; but for Brexit fundamentalists, a strict, cultish adherence to this concepts of "sovr'ntee" and taking back control can and will bring about the same economic prosperity and so must take precedence over everything else. That's the problem. You recognise no fundamentalist attitudes of the “we should never have left” camp? The problems have been exacerbated for the reasons I gave earlier,that and the insults and counters The simple truth is that there was a democratic excercise and one side lost,there followed argument of lies and that the vote should never have happened or that is was advisory only and should’ve been ignored. As above with your post the insults continue,imo this was a once in a generation vote which has never been allowed to go forward,again for the reasons I have given. I think it should be given time,if say in 15 to 20 years there were another vote and they wanted back in I wouldn’t complain. The issue is that many want that vote sooner rather than later,cite things like we have general elections people change their minds sure but this wasn’t a general election and do you think should they prevail they’d allow another’s referendum for those very reasons?not on your life. |
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Post by Pacifico on May 17, 2023 21:22:05 GMT
The only problems related to Brexit are that the civil service never wanted it,the Westminster bubble in the main didn’t either but some pretended to in order to be elected. The common market wasn’t a bad idea till it morphed in to a political union and people like Blair,Major and others offered us up without any reference to our wishes,those seeking our return are in thrall to a union that democratically? requires you to carry on voting till you vote in the correct way. There’s no recognition that we existed quite happily for years outside this construct. The problem with Brexit is Brexit itself and this is exacerbated by its supporters' fundamentalist view of how it should be implemented. Brexit gives precedence to this nebulous concept of taking back control over economic prosperity. Yet it is arguably, by its very nature alone, bad for the economy since it automatically raises trade barriers and creates trade friction. So the EU's Common Customs Tariff is a bad thing? |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2023 21:47:24 GMT
The problem with Brexit is Brexit itself and this is exacerbated by its supporters' fundamentalist view of how it should be implemented. Brexit gives precedence to this nebulous concept of taking back control over economic prosperity. Yet it is arguably, by its very nature alone, bad for the economy since it automatically raises trade barriers and creates trade friction. But it's been argued before that Brexit is more food for the soul than nourishment for the body: a fundamental Brexit principle which fundamentalist supporters insist must be applied to its implementation. Compromise, flexibility and pragmatism are crucial to economic prosperity; but for Brexit fundamentalists, a strict, cultish adherence to this concepts of "sovr'ntee" and taking back control can and will bring about the same economic prosperity and so must take precedence over everything else. That's the problem. You recognise no fundamentalist attitudes of the “we should never have left” camp? The problems have been exacerbated for the reasons I gave earlier,that and the insults and counters The simple truth is that there was a democratic excercise and one side lost,there followed argument of lies and that the vote should never have happened or that is was advisory only and should’ve been ignored. As above with your post the insults continue,imo this was a once in a generation vote which has never been allowed to go forward,again for the reasons I have given. I think it should be given time,if say in 15 to 20 years there were another vote and they wanted back in I wouldn’t complain.
The issue is that many want that vote sooner rather than later,cite things like we have general elections people change their minds sure but this wasn’t a general election and do you think should they prevail they’d allow another’s referendum for those very reasons?not on your life. No. To answer your question. We can't go back to discussing that democratic exercise and the decision to withdraw from the European Union. We must now concentrate on the arrangements made by Boris Johnson for our withdrawal from the European Union and the damage it has caused and continue to cause. The relevant and substantive discussion is about the withdrawal agreement or this hard, rigid Brexit that Boris Johnson negotiated and its adverse effects on the society and the economy. Of course, we can discuss the referendum and all issues surrounding it if you insist, but it would be purely as an academic exercise or as a reference point. I don't think this Brexit should be given time. It is patently clear that nothing beneficial can be gained from it. If we must stay outside of the European Union, then so be it, but Johnson's version of Brexit must go. It doesn't give anything back, so dilute it, "BRINO" it, soften it, junk it completely and replace it with something sensible, anything! But nobody should justify it or find excuses for it. |
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