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Post by Dan Dare on May 16, 2023 10:02:52 GMT
The actual offence that Allchurch was convicted of is set out in s21 of the Public Order Act 1986: 21 Distributing, showing or playing a recording.(1)A person who distributes, or shows or plays, a recording of visual images or sounds which are threatening, abusive or insulting is guilty of an offence if— (a)he intends thereby to stir up racial hatred, or (b)having regard to all the circumstances racial hatred is likely to be stirred up thereby.
Since he apparently denied intent, the conviction would have rested on clause 21.(1)(b), that racial hatred was likely to be stirred up.
We're not told how the prosecution and the judge persuaded the jury that was the going to be the case.
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Post by Vinny on May 16, 2023 11:01:57 GMT
The jury listened to his recordings.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 16, 2023 11:58:30 GMT
Nick Price, Head of the Crown Prosecution Services' Special Crime and Counter Terrorism Division, said: "The hateful and grotesque views that Allchurch shared on his podcast were a threat to our society, and it is right that the jury found him guilty of his crimes.
"There is no place in society for these beliefs, and the CPS will continue to prosecute all cases involving hate crime where there is sufficient evidence to do so."
"There is no place in society for these beliefs, and the CPS will continue to prosecute all cases involving hate crime where there is sufficient evidence to do so."
Dr Lella Nouri, Associate Professor in Criminology, Sociology and Social Policy at Swansea University said the case raised a question.
"It is a particularly interesting case because it's the first time really that we've seen in Wales something that is very much on that boundary level of 'is this hate speech, is this extremism?'" she said.
"It's very, very pertinent to conversations that are happening right now.
"What happens today will hopefully set a precedent that this kind of language whether online or offline, whether on a blog or on a podcast or on social media messages is not appropriate and hopefully set some much clearer boundaries".
Views, beliefs, speech, language = Crimes.
1984.
Don't say you weren't warned.
I agree with your point. From what I can tell he wasn't advocating breaking any laws, regardless as to whether his views were repugnant or not.
Absolutely. He wasn't exactly the kind of person that I'd choose to go for a pint with, in fact I dare say he's utterly horrible, but when view and beliefs become crimes we are on a very slippery slope.
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Post by Vinny on May 16, 2023 12:16:50 GMT
OK, Osama Bin Laden expressed views, he's not the one who actually carried out terrorist attacks, was it not right to bump him off?
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 16, 2023 12:30:45 GMT
OK, Osama Bin Laden expressed views, he's not the one who actually carried out terrorist attacks, was it not right to bump him off?
I've no idea what Bin Laden's involvement in anything really was (and I doubt we'll ever find out) but if we take the allegations at face value, then he was involved in funding and orchestrating acts of mass violence which were actually carried out and actually killed thousands of people.
AFAIK, this Welsh Neo-Nazi did nothing aside from profess some repugnant views to some like minded people. No one was actually harmed.
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Post by Dan Dare on May 16, 2023 12:53:08 GMT
Yes that's really the point, no physical harms resulted from Allchurch's recordings and yet somehow the CPS pursued his prosecution on the basis that harms were likely to occur.
They (and the courts) ought to really know better since this is the 9th such prosecution since the Heretical Two in 2009 and in no case has any tangible harm (except hurt feelings and maybe feeling hated) resulted from the criminal activities the defendants were prosecuted for.
I'd really like to understand exactly what it was that convinced the jury that the outcomes from this case would be different to all the previous ones, but of course we never get to see jury deliberations.
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Post by Vinny on May 16, 2023 14:28:18 GMT
Well, as I'm not the judge or the jury, he has a chance to appeal.
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Post by Dan Dare on May 16, 2023 15:00:24 GMT
He'd probably be well-advised to seek out a more competent defence counsel before launching an appeal. The young lady representing him at the trial is a quite junior barrister, court appointed, with just a few years experience and certainly no match for the KC that the CPS was able to field.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2023 18:52:33 GMT
He'd probably be well-advised to seek out a more competent defence counsel before launching an appeal. The young lady representing him at the trial is a quite junior barrister, court appointed, with just a few years experience and certainly no match for the KC that the CPS was able to field. I doubt he will appeal, because he was bang to rights. Why you would want a purveyor of hatred back out operating online or in person is beyond me. |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2023 0:02:56 GMT
I agree with your point. From what I can tell he wasn't advocating breaking any laws, regardless as to whether his views were repugnant or not.
Absolutely. He wasn't exactly the kind of person that I'd choose to go for a pint with, in fact I dare say he's utterly horrible, but when view and beliefs become crimes we are on a very slippery slope.
There are views on here I find utterly horrible. War mongerers, bigots, haters and nasties, all of which are unpleasant. I guess this is the joys of totalitarianism, where they get to decide who is or isn't locked up, whilst failing to comprehend the fact that with little steps it could eventually be them with their neck on the slab. |
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Post by Dubdrifter on May 18, 2023 11:42:37 GMT
I didn’t realise Rishi Sunak was Welsh?!! … Did he have this guy and Zelenski on ‘speed dial’? 🤔
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Post by Dubdrifter on May 18, 2023 11:44:39 GMT
There are views on here I find utterly horrible. War mongerers, bigots, haters and nasties, all of which are unpleasant. I guess this is the joys of totalitarianism, where they get to decide who is or isn't locked up, whilst failing to comprehend the fact that with little steps it could eventually be them with their neck on the slab. Please get equally offended by Vinny’s views … and Totalitarian ambitions. … |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2023 13:04:22 GMT
Offended by what? I merely disagree with him on this point. I and moreso TSM have explained our reasons for doing so.
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Post by Red Rackham on May 19, 2023 0:08:48 GMT
Makes me wonder what the reaction of the police and courts would have been if James Allchurch had been a Muslim. You may notice in the pic below people waving banners that actively encourage terrorism and murder, yet the police allowed them to continue. On this occasion racial hatred was obviously OK.  |
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Post by Dubdrifter on May 19, 2023 5:18:51 GMT
OK, Osama Bin Laden expressed views, he's not the one who actually carried out terrorist attacks, was it not right to bump him off? I've no idea what Bin Laden's involvement in anything really was (and I doubt we'll ever find out) but if we take the allegations at face value, then he was involved in funding and orchestrating acts of mass violence which were actually carried out and actually killed thousands of people. AFAIK, this Welsh Neo-Nazi did nothing aside from profess some repugnant views to some like minded people. No one was actually harmed.
Maybe you should take time out looking into his history working for the CIA?? …. while you are doing that … maybe change your avatar promoting a real Nazi who committed real atrocities?🤔 Yes that's really the point, no physical harms resulted from Allchurch's recordings and yet somehow the CPS pursued his prosecution on the basis that harms were likely to occur. They (and the courts) ought to really know better since this is the 9th such prosecution since the Heretical Two in 2009 and in no case has any tangible harm (except hurt feelings and maybe feeling hated) resulted from the criminal activities the defendants were prosecuted for. I'd really like to understand exactly what it was that convinced the jury that the outcomes from this case would be different to all the previous ones, but of course we never get to see jury deliberations. Totally agree … the boiled up rage generated by the Prosecutor and Vinny in this case seems rather exaggerated … “over a harm likely to occur” … since when did the British Justice System prosecute on an imaginary hypothesis?? Is there any direct proof his incitement caused an attack on the groups mentioned? There are many people on here who have called for the fast track deportation of criminals and terrorists back to their Countries of origin … many think it an excellent idea (including me) … a deterrent to those who seek to undermine the stability of our Country and it’s Communities. He'd probably be well-advised to seek out a more competent defence counsel before launching an appeal. The young lady representing him at the trial is a quite junior barrister, court appointed, with just a few years experience and certainly no match for the KC that the CPS was able to field. Rather symptomatic of the state of British Justice and Fair Play now employed within our UK Justice System which has been taken over by foreigners from alien cultures and religions whose sectarian extremism is historically well-recorded and equally odious. Offended by what? I merely disagree with him on this point. I and moreso TSM have explained our reasons for doing so. So you missed Vinny’s incitement and hate speech against all Russians since Russia’s intervention in Ukraine Jan ‘22 … designed initially to stamp out Azov Nazi terrorism against Eastern Ukranians and Russian civilians … terrorism funded and trained by the CIA’s military advisors sanctioned by VP Biden in 2014?? Vinny’s speeches on this, and our last Forum … actively shut down by his vile outbursts … was equally on a par with the odious content this Welsh idiot was spouting. … maybe the British People should stopped fawning over an MSM owned and censored by religious bigots who commit far worse atrocities and incitements …. and maybe we should laugh more at Vinny’s faux outrage? … 🤔 Makes me wonder what the reaction of the police and courts would have been if James Allchurch had been a Muslim. You may notice in the pic below people waving banners that actively encourage terrorism and murder, yet the police allowed them to continue. On this occasion racial hatred was obviously OK. Yes, the state of British Justice today suggests the police and the CPS are anti-white racist?? No?? The trouble is that the MSM repeatedly reprints photos of muslims ‘getting away with it’ … which reinforces them ‘getting away with it’ … and thereby encourages more Muslims to take to our streets and vent their spleens and outrage. A white person would be arrested for banners like this … … it used to be covered under the umbrella of Free Speech for all … Really odious white supremacist groups oddly had the platform to march their hatred views through the streets of America … now Leftist Anarchists, Zionists and Marxists owning the MSM has triggered a reactive alarming increase in support for the Far Right as Globalists unbalanced the Democratic landscape … who knows if Free Speech will be restored to America now under an Administration that censors like Goebbels?? …. Biden pretty much tore up the U.S. Constitution the first week he was crow-barred into the White House by the CIA in 2020. |
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