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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2022 21:11:30 GMT
It's their right to protest and it's true that Brexit has been a disaster, but wasn't the 2019 general election a referendum on Brexit and the people voted for hard/no deal Brexit regardless of consequence..? It's true that Labour are now set to win by a landslide in the next election but for how long if Bojo reattains office, which let's face it, is an inevitability..?
And another thing, if Scottish indyrefs are 'once in generation' as so many Remainers [as in EU remainers] described it - shouldn't the same hold true for another Brexit vote?
If you ask me, a general election works as a referendum and if the Tories/Boris wins it, we already know what the majority want. We could start adding more 'ballot measures' to the voting sheets at the General Election, so they can function as a combined/multi-referenda as well as a general election and we can vote on many things at once?
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 22, 2022 21:15:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2022 21:52:28 GMT
Hi mate, your tweet doesn't come up but says it's a tweet? Could you give the direct link as a url perhaps?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2022 21:53:46 GMT
BTW, Boris prob should be leader - a good article in Politico points out Partygate will distract from everything he's done (or will be doing) so he would make the best possible PM. I predicted same with Truss because I figured something like this would happen, so actually Boris would be best set to be PM and will last for a short period, all IMHO of course. It just means polling for SNP and others will rise, which is of course a good thing - in my book and my opinion.  |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 23, 2022 18:59:40 GMT
It was a one in a generation referendum, no further referendums on membership until 2036.
Besides, being out is rather pleasant.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2022 9:22:03 GMT
It's their right to protest and it's true that Brexit has been a disaster, but wasn't the 2019 general election a referendum on Brexit and the people voted for hard/no deal Brexit regardless of consequence..? It's true that Labour are now set to win by a landslide in the next election but for how long if Bojo reattains office, which let's face it, is an inevitability..?
And another thing, if Scottish indyrefs are 'once in generation' as so many Remainers [as in EU remainers] described it - shouldn't the same hold true for another Brexit vote?
If you ask me, a general election works as a referendum and if the Tories/Boris wins it, we already know what the majority want. We could start adding more 'ballot measures' to the voting sheets at the General Election, so they can function as a combined/multi-referenda as well as a general election and we can vote on many things at once?
It seems to me that most, if not all, fans of BJ's Brexit continue to claim that 2019 was a referendum on Brexit but still omit the fact that Corbyn was a die-hard anti-EU and Brexit fan as well. Corbyn sounded like he was choking on his own vomit when he had to state that he was open to a second referendum on the withdrawal agreement. (Note that it was not a second referendum on the question of EU membership -- which was the "Remain" position.) That, to me, invalidates the claim that GE2019 was also a vote for Brexit. And that is why fans of BJ's Brexit pee all over the place when someone points out that polls indicate that the UK would vote -- if given a chance -- to be back in the EU. BTW, that embarrassment of an ex PM, Boris Johnson, has decided to pull out of the race. Thank God! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2022 10:04:43 GMT
It's their right to protest and it's true that Brexit has been a disaster, but wasn't the 2019 general election a referendum on Brexit and the people voted for hard/no deal Brexit regardless of consequence..? It's true that Labour are now set to win by a landslide in the next election but for how long if Bojo reattains office, which let's face it, is an inevitability..?
And another thing, if Scottish indyrefs are 'once in generation' as so many Remainers [as in EU remainers] described it - shouldn't the same hold true for another Brexit vote?
If you ask me, a general election works as a referendum and if the Tories/Boris wins it, we already know what the majority want. We could start adding more 'ballot measures' to the voting sheets at the General Election, so they can function as a combined/multi-referenda as well as a general election and we can vote on many things at once?
It seems to me that most, if not all, fans of BJ's Brexit continue to claim that 2019 was a referendum on Brexit but still omit the fact that Corbyn was a die-hard anti-EU and Brexit fan as well. Corbyn sounded like he was choking on his own vomit when he had to state that he was open to a second referendum on the withdrawal agreement. (Note that it was not a second referendum on the question of EU membership -- which was the "Remain" position.) That, to me, invalidates the claim that GE2019 was also a vote for Brexit. And that is why fans of BJ's Brexit pee all over the place when someone points out that polls indicate that the UK would vote -- if given a chance -- to be back in the EU. BTW, that embarrassment of an ex PM, Boris Johnson, has decided to pull out of the race. Thank God! You sound like a fully signed up and delusional Jo Swinson diehard. Don't like Boris, no deal Brexit or Corbyn, but your Remain fanaticism is even less appealing. |
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Post by bancroft on Oct 24, 2022 11:03:36 GMT
It's their right to protest and it's true that Brexit has been a disaster, but wasn't the 2019 general election a referendum on Brexit and the people voted for hard/no deal Brexit regardless of consequence..? It's true that Labour are now set to win by a landslide in the next election but for how long if Bojo reattains office, which let's face it, is an inevitability..?
And another thing, if Scottish indyrefs are 'once in generation' as so many Remainers [as in EU remainers] described it - shouldn't the same hold true for another Brexit vote?
If you ask me, a general election works as a referendum and if the Tories/Boris wins it, we already know what the majority want. We could start adding more 'ballot measures' to the voting sheets at the General Election, so they can function as a combined/multi-referenda as well as a general election and we can vote on many things at once?
Good point about some of those elections where MPs were deselected depending on thier Brexit position. Not sure where this goes, you see the UK is a mini-empire and joining the EU again would be rejoining a bigger growing empire taking in many more nations meaning more taxation to support the poorer nations. We already have issues supporting the less affluent as it is. The EU still has it own issues with target II imbalances and if another 'bioweapon' is released would you want Brussels determining how long we must lockdown rather than Westminster? I don't think Brexit has been good yet neither has it been a disaster the sky has not fallen-in as some predicted. COV-ID handling was a disaster after 3 months, IMO. |
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Post by Steve on Oct 24, 2022 11:13:40 GMT
It was a one in a generation referendum, no further referendums on membership until 2036. Besides, being out is rather pleasant. Well we'll see. If the UK-EU deal holds then it's hard to see any momentum for a further vote even by 2036. If however the Tories continue take us down the Jihadist line on NI Unionism and we lapse into 'No Deal' then almost anything could happen in fairly short order. It's events that should determine response actions not clock watching. |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 24, 2022 11:18:54 GMT
There's loads of ways to be outside the EU.
The sad thing is we didn't get a how we leave referendum before we left, the IF we leave people more or less killed that possibility.
It would be nice to have more public input into how we relate to the EU and for that matter our EFTA friends.
But, for now we don't.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2022 11:40:48 GMT
It seems to me that most, if not all, fans of BJ's Brexit continue to claim that 2019 was a referendum on Brexit but still omit the fact that Corbyn was a die-hard anti-EU and Brexit fan as well. Corbyn sounded like he was choking on his own vomit when he had to state that he was open to a second referendum on the withdrawal agreement. (Note that it was not a second referendum on the question of EU membership -- which was the "Remain" position.) That, to me, invalidates the claim that GE2019 was also a vote for Brexit. And that is why fans of BJ's Brexit pee all over the place when someone points out that polls indicate that the UK would vote -- if given a chance -- to be back in the EU. BTW, that embarrassment of an ex PM, Boris Johnson, has decided to pull out of the race. Thank God! You sound like a fully signed up and delusional Jo Swinson diehard. Don't like Boris, no deal Brexit or Corbyn, but your Remain fanaticism is even less appealing. ^  Actually, I wrote to Swinson's campaign office to tell her that not only was she stupid for agreeing to a GE and for boasting that she'd be the next PM but she was also as illusory as those Brexit-loving, BJ-admiring jingoistic Brexit voters whose be-all-and-end-all in life was to get their brand of Brexit done. If "unappealing remain fanaticism" means the vehement rejection of the Brexit-Tory policy of dragging the United Kingdom's international reputation into the gutter and forcing people to lower expectations and accept a diminished status all in the name of BJ's Brexit? Then, yeah, I'd upgrade my Remain membership -- where do I sign? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2022 11:55:31 GMT
You sound like a fully signed up and delusional Jo Swinson diehard. Don't like Boris, no deal Brexit or Corbyn, but your Remain fanaticism is even less appealing. ^ Actually, I wrote to Swinson's campaign office to tell her that not only was she stupid for agreeing to a GE and for boasting that she'd be the next PM but she was also as illusory as those Brexit-loving, BJ-admiring jingoistic Brexit voters whose be-all-and-end-all in life was to get their brand of Brexit done. If "unappealing remain fanaticism" means the vehement rejection of the Brexit-Tory policy of dragging the United Kingdom's international reputation into the gutter and forcing people to lower expectations and accept a diminished status all in the name of BJ's Brexit? Then, yeah, I'd upgrade my Remain membership -- where do I sign? Ah well. Fair enough.
And what is your favoured alternative? Sir Keir Knight of the Realm Starmer taking us back into the EU with all the great deals struck by New Labour in the old days? Where they got the worst of many sides combined in the EU?
I've always said gnome that being in the EU or out of the EU can be good or bad depending on how it's handled by any given government.
Nigel Farage himself backed Tony Blair's proposed EU reforms in 2005 because they sounded so good - sounded (can't stand Farage) but then Blair reneged, because that's kinda what those types do. Same as New Labour reneged on their promised electoral reforms after the 1997 GE - just like they tried to back out of devolution - but were forced to by EU law (one of the good things the EU forced on New Labour).
The EU has many flaws but hard for me to say whether it's a net positive or negative right now as honestly I'm not entirely sure, Ursula has been really crap at her job and many Europhiles have critiqued her, she needs to go - and fast.
My proposal would be to start an adjacent bloc [as in EU countries should do this - not us] that isn't in competition with the EU but will eventually include all the same member states - but with much improvement - and to slowly move everything over to that and phase the EU out.
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Post by Toreador on Oct 24, 2022 11:58:04 GMT
You sound like a fully signed up and delusional Jo Swinson diehard. Don't like Boris, no deal Brexit or Corbyn, but your Remain fanaticism is even less appealing. ^ Actually, I wrote to Swinson's campaign office to tell her that not only was she stupid for agreeing to a GE and for boasting that she'd be the next PM but she was also as illusory as those Brexit-loving, BJ-admiring jingoistic Brexit voters whose be-all-and-end-all in life was to get their brand of Brexit done. If "unappealing remain fanaticism" means the vehement rejection of the Brexit-Tory policy of dragging the United Kingdom's international reputation into the gutter and forcing people to lower expectations and accept a diminished status all in the name of BJ's Brexit? Then, yeah, I'd upgrade my Remain membership -- where do I sign?On the dotty line. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 24, 2022 12:08:55 GMT
Yep, these are kind of people we should all listen to.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2022 14:06:56 GMT
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Actually, I wrote to Swinson's campaign office to tell her that not only was she stupid for agreeing to a GE and for boasting that she'd be the next PM but she was also as illusory as those Brexit-loving, BJ-admiring jingoistic Brexit voters whose be-all-and-end-all in life was to get their brand of Brexit done. 
