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Post by piglet on Apr 18, 2023 16:25:19 GMT
By the Chinese. The world is becoming psychotic. Even at home with the lunacy of wokery, the Tories going yampy, Labour with its usual nasty crap, America becoming red. Where is it all going to end?
I think the answer is that it isnt, something bad is brewing, those with common sense dont know which way to turn, it comes from everywhere. It seems to me that authoritarinism, if i spelt it right, is the real choice for human kind, that even when in power, democracy has to fight for survival, at all times.
When a human being gets power, it tastes so good, they want more....and more. Gascoigne is an example, he met Thatcher and put his arm around her. Just doing that got him going, to merely touch power means people like him then go and relieve themselves in the toilet. He is an animal, something very bad is coming, China will attack Tiwan.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Apr 18, 2023 16:30:47 GMT
I don't think I've ever lived in a democracy. The politicians pay lip service to the idea and then do what they want anyway.
I see mass civil disobedience coming and I'm starting to see it as a duty.
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Post by vlk on Apr 18, 2023 20:21:47 GMT
America becoming red? Actually in America becoming red means exactly the opposite to what it means in Europe.
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Post by dodgydave on Apr 19, 2023 0:41:19 GMT
I don't think I've ever lived in a democracy. The politicians pay lip service to the idea and then do what they want anyway. I see mass civil disobedience coming and I'm starting to see it as a duty. What a load of rubbish, you have a vote, you are free to join whatever political party you choose, and you are free to stand for election. You are free to voice your opinion and you are free to criticise politicians. Spend any time outside of a Western country and you will see how lucky you are. Democracy is not about getting your own way like a spoilt toddler. You vote for somebody to represent you, not behave like they are your clone. Politics is about compromise, pragmatism and tough decisions. It is not a fairytale where everybody has a happy ending. As for civil disobedience, don't make me laugh. The majority are doing just fine. What are they going to protest against, only being able to afford two holidays this year because of the cost of living? lol |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Apr 19, 2023 8:46:35 GMT
Do get real: You only get to vote on the issues that the Westminster consensus deem acceptable. Even then, they're quite happy to completely ignore any and every manifesto pledge if it suits.
That's why there's no functional difference whichever party is ostensibly in power.
As for civil disobedience, wait until the full effects of Net Zero kick in: Unaffordable bills, road pricing, low traffic neighborhoods, 15 minute cities and facial recognition cameras everywhere (and all supported by every major party).
If you're happy with those curbs on your freedoms then good luck to you but those of us who can see where all of this is heading are likely to be somewhat less compliant.
For now you're living in a happy bubble of ignorance but it will soon be time to wake up and smell the coffee.
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Post by see2 on Apr 19, 2023 10:02:53 GMT
I don't think I've ever lived in a democracy. The politicians pay lip service to the idea and then do what they want anyway. I see mass civil disobedience coming and I'm starting to see it as a duty. You live in a 'Representative Democracy' i.e. elected people by the people with helpers and advisers and access to information, far better than putting ones hopes into the changing vagaries and whims of the all too often ill-informed and easily led. The mass disobedience you imagine is given life by incredibly stupid posts like yours above. |
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Post by Orac on Apr 20, 2023 11:32:51 GMT
For now you're living in a happy bubble of ignorance but it will soon be time to wake up and smell the coffee. The full pathological nature of the current trends in the establishment will only become clear to some when they are in the box-car and try to explain to the guards that there must have been some kind of 'mix-up' and they should really be there |
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Post by thescotsman on Apr 20, 2023 12:26:07 GMT
By the Chinese. The world is becoming psychotic. Even at home with the lunacy of wokery, the Tories going yampy, Labour with its usual nasty crap, America becoming red. Where is it all going to end?I think the answer is that it isnt, something bad is brewing, those with common sense dont know which way to turn, it comes from everywhere. It seems to me that authoritarinism, if i spelt it right, is the real choice for human kind, that even when in power, democracy has to fight for survival, at all times. When a human being gets power, it tastes so good, they want more....and more. Gascoigne is an example, he met Thatcher and put his arm around her. Just doing that got him going, to merely touch power means people like him then go and relieve themselves in the toilet. He is an animal, something very bad is coming, China will attack Tiwan. ....its an interesting post. I was thinking that my world view...or rather my perspective of our world is that its no more or less secure or insecure, politically or socially more or less radical than I've experienced it in the past? I left the military having been shot at in various places and transitioned to a life in commerce experiencing booms and busts and have seen radical politicians of varying stripes come and go....I'm not seeing anything really that I haven't seen or experienced before? Wokery is a thing for the young to figure out...it's one of those radical things the young like to feel gives them agency.....I'm guessing its a reaction to the "old men" in power syndrome but like ever fad I reckon it'll will work its way through and will morph with time into something people will become comfortable with or will continue to complain about...in any case....whatever that morphing looks like I really can't say. I remember a time in the UK when communist trades unions were hell bent on knackering the country's industrial base. I remember people railing against Thatcher and "poll Tax" riots in Central London and race riots in Brixton. What's the country coming to!! They went away as will this I suppose. As for China, Xi has an issue in that the Chinese economy and its financial system is on a knife edge and with 1.4bn people with aspirations of social and economic improvement; transitioning peasants that see a new and affluent middle class in the new cities and a middle class that does not want to transition back to being peasants...well...he needs a narrative to deal with them. Taiwan has always been a ready meal for China when they want to divert attention from internal issues so I'm guessing that needs time to play out. Ultimately though, China needs a functioning worldwide supply chain to maintain a pliant middle class and aspirational peasants. So I doubt he's going to go to war and jeapordise his future..as you say...having tasted power he's going to want to hold onto it. anyway enough of that...but thanks...an interesting post! |
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Post by dodgydave on Apr 20, 2023 12:47:08 GMT
Do get real: You only get to vote on the issues that the Westminster consensus deem acceptable. Even then, they're quite happy to completely ignore any and every manifesto pledge if it suits. That's why there's no functional difference whichever party is ostensibly in power. As for civil disobedience, wait until the full effects of Net Zero kick in: Unaffordable bills, road pricing, low traffic neighborhoods, 15 minute cities and facial recognition cameras everywhere (and all supported by every major party). If you're happy with those curbs on your freedoms then good luck to you but those of us who can see where all of this is heading are likely to be somewhat less compliant. For now you're living in a happy bubble of ignorance but it will soon be time to wake up and smell the coffee. Manifestos are not chiseled into stone like the ten commandments. Realities change, and they have to be pragmatic about it. For example, are you seriously suggesting manifesto pledges should have been prioritised over a pandemic response and the wrecked global economy it left? YES, the parties are very close in positions, because why would you do anything else other than what is obviously the right thing to do? I hate to break it to you, but most people are doing ok, so who would vote for radical change? In 12 months time inflation will be back to 2% and everything will be forgotten. As for unaffordable bills, maybe people should have saved for a rainy day when we had decades of cheap food and utilities. 70% of the country are fat fuckers so our food is obviously still too cheap!! |
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Post by Orac on Apr 20, 2023 13:03:40 GMT
Do get real: You only get to vote on the issues that the Westminster consensus deem acceptable. Even then, they're quite happy to completely ignore any and every manifesto pledge if it suits. That's why there's no functional difference whichever party is ostensibly in power. As for civil disobedience, wait until the full effects of Net Zero kick in: Unaffordable bills, road pricing, low traffic neighborhoods, 15 minute cities and facial recognition cameras everywhere (and all supported by every major party). If you're happy with those curbs on your freedoms then good luck to you but those of us who can see where all of this is heading are likely to be somewhat less compliant. For now you're living in a happy bubble of ignorance but it will soon be time to wake up and smell the coffee. Manifestos are not chiseled into stone like the ten commandments. Realities change, and they have to be pragmatic about it. For example, are you seriously suggesting manifesto pledges should have been prioritised over a pandemic response and the wrecked global economy it left? The notable and continuous manifesto betrayals and covert policy are not features limited to the covid emergency. Just because the outcome perhaps chimes with your interests, doesn't stop it being destabilising. People are now not only reliably not getting what they voted for, they are getting gigantic hidden policies forced on them that aren't in manifestos |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 20, 2023 17:05:05 GMT
Do get real: You only get to vote on the issues that the Westminster consensus deem acceptable. Even then, they're quite happy to completely ignore any and every manifesto pledge if it suits. That's why there's no functional difference whichever party is ostensibly in power. As for civil disobedience, wait until the full effects of Net Zero kick in: Unaffordable bills, road pricing, low traffic neighborhoods, 15 minute cities and facial recognition cameras everywhere (and all supported by every major party). If you're happy with those curbs on your freedoms then good luck to you but those of us who can see where all of this is heading are likely to be somewhat less compliant. For now you're living in a happy bubble of ignorance but it will soon be time to wake up and smell the coffee. Manifestos are not chiseled into stone like the ten commandments. Are you sure?  |
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Post by dodgydave on Apr 21, 2023 0:49:46 GMT
Manifestos are not chiseled into stone like the ten commandments. Realities change, and they have to be pragmatic about it. For example, are you seriously suggesting manifesto pledges should have been prioritised over a pandemic response and the wrecked global economy it left? The notable and continuous manifesto betrayals and covert policy are not features limited to the covid emergency. Just because the outcome perhaps chimes with your interests, doesn't stop it being destabilising. People are now not only reliably not getting what they voted for, they are getting gigantic hidden policies forced on them that aren't in manifestos Go on then, name some notable manifesto betrayals? I can literally only think of one betrayal, and was the Libdem's position on tuition fees, and they got wiped out at the next election because of it. All manifesto pledges are goals, which often get watered down or abandoned due the reality of the situation. Whatever party wins next time can promise the world during the election. However, the reality is that we are trillions in debt because of the financial crisis and COVID, and UK public do not likes taxes. You should understand that when you vote and not be so gullible. If you are waiting for politicians to change your life for the better you are doing it wrong. You make your own life better, and try to shield yourself from whatever politics might throw at you. |
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Post by Orac on Apr 21, 2023 8:19:56 GMT
The notable and continuous manifesto betrayals and covert policy are not features limited to the covid emergency. Just because the outcome perhaps chimes with your interests, doesn't stop it being destabilising. People are now not only reliably not getting what they voted for, they are getting gigantic hidden policies forced on them that aren't in manifestos Go on then, name some notable manifesto betrayals? I can literally only think of one betrayal, and was the Libdem's position on tuition fees, and they got wiped out at the next election because of it. All manifesto pledges are goals, which often get watered down or abandoned due the reality of the situation. Whatever party wins next time can promise the world during the election. However, the reality is that we are trillions in debt because of the financial crisis and COVID, and UK public do not likes taxes. You should understand that when you vote and not be so gullible. If you are waiting for politicians to change your life for the better you are doing it wrong. You make your own life better, and try to shield yourself from whatever politics might throw at you. You challenge me to provide examples, but you also have yourself covered in case I do.  Here - "All manifesto pledges are goals, which often get watered down or abandoned due the reality of the situation"What this amounts to is - "the government did what I wanted them to do regardless of the expressed wishes of the voters and I'm very happy with that choice. With luck this will keep on happening."However, I feel sure if a government were elected on a manifesto of increasing immigration and then instead began a program of mass deportations, you would not respond to those circumstance with - "All manifesto pledges are goals, which often get watered down or abandoned due the reality of the situation"We are talking here about a pattern of large scale and persistent betrayal. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Apr 21, 2023 10:31:53 GMT
...People are now not only reliably not getting what they voted for, they are getting gigantic hidden policies forced on them that aren't in manifestos... Is the issue. And gigantic policies largely supported by every major party so that there is no democratic alternative. |
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