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Post by jonksy on Apr 14, 2023 23:25:55 GMT
He is far from wrong Baron. If you have a particular issue then tell us. don't give me pages and pages of crap from someone when I don't know which bit you refer to. I could give you dozns of links. You stated you trained in physics so you should find it easy to find the relevant points. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 15, 2023 12:31:40 GMT
If you have a particular issue then tell us. don't give me pages and pages of crap from someone when I don't know which bit you refer to. I could give you dozns of links. You stated you trained in physics so you should find it easy to find the relevant points. You said you studied physics too, but so far all I have seen you manage is links. I'm waiting for you to provide some solutions to our energy problems with it. Until you do I won't believe it has done you any good. The idea is half baked, so why not bake the other half? Tell us what we can do, not what we can't. It will be good for you. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 15, 2023 12:43:34 GMT
Iron-air batteries are being touted as the future of large scale energy storage ... starting next year. Yeah, of course. Get back to me when they are actually economically viable. This sounds like Elon Musk who has claimed every year for the past decade that next year there would be working self driving cars on the roads.. I think the most we can use batteries for it to deal with short surges of power demand. They are good at instantly delivering a high current where a back-up generator will taka e a few seconds to start up. Interestingly a man from the leccy board says we no longer have such a surge problem due to digital TV with millions of channels. In the old days we had 3 and when the ads came on millions of kettles would fire up.
The amount of energy we need for 6mis huge, so it narrows our options. Our current lithium batteries are about 1 MJ/kg compared to 1.4MJ for a kilo of sand. You can see batteries need to be cheaper than sand to compete. |
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Post by besoeker3 on Apr 16, 2023 11:27:22 GMT
Since no one has helped to figure out how heat storage could work, I guess it is up to me. That German one has missed a few tricks. They feed the heat directly into homes via a heat exchanger, but this is expensive as you have plumb in all the hot water pipes and insulate miles and miles of it unless you build it into a new development where it might not be so costly. You see if you convert it back to electricity you can use a heat pump and get over 100% efficiency.
Now regarding where to put all this sand, it could be built underground. The reason is the rate at which heat is lost through the insulation is proportional to the temperature difference. If the unit is underground then it will gradually heat the ground up whereas outside in the air you would heat the air up. Unlike the air outside though the ground does not go anywhere, and so it builds up in temperature and all the while it does this there is less heat escaping due to a lower temperature gradient. I understand this is specified by a differential equation. Anyhow it gives an extra bit of insulation for free, does not waste valuable ground and to build it would be a lot easier and cheaper.
There is sand in huge amounts so why hasn't anybody used it?? Could possibly be the need to heat it 1700C ? |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 16, 2023 12:25:46 GMT
Since no one has helped to figure out how heat storage could work, I guess it is up to me. That German one has missed a few tricks. They feed the heat directly into homes via a heat exchanger, but this is expensive as you have plumb in all the hot water pipes and insulate miles and miles of it unless you build it into a new development where it might not be so costly. You see if you convert it back to electricity you can use a heat pump and get over 100% efficiency.
Now regarding where to put all this sand, it could be built underground. The reason is the rate at which heat is lost through the insulation is proportional to the temperature difference. If the unit is underground then it will gradually heat the ground up whereas outside in the air you would heat the air up. Unlike the air outside though the ground does not go anywhere, and so it builds up in temperature and all the while it does this there is less heat escaping due to a lower temperature gradient. I understand this is specified by a differential equation. Anyhow it gives an extra bit of insulation for free, does not waste valuable ground and to build it would be a lot easier and cheaper.
There is sand in huge amounts so why hasn't anybody used it?? Could possibly be the need to heat it 1700C ? You'd never believe fusion could work when one needs temperatures of 100 million degrees.
I suggest you use your brain. Step into unchartered territory and be the first to find a way. Don't become a laggard, following other people's inaction.
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Post by besoeker3 on Apr 16, 2023 12:37:10 GMT
I suggest you use your brain. Step into unchartered territory and be the first to find a way. Don't become a laggard, following other people's inaction.
So you just don't know, do you? |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 16, 2023 12:51:11 GMT
I suggest you use your brain. Step into unchartered territory and be the first to find a way. Don't become a laggard, following other people's inaction.
So you just don't know, do you? The physics tells me where to look. |
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Post by besoeker3 on Apr 16, 2023 12:54:51 GMT
So you just don't know, do you? The physics tells me where to look. So why are you not finding it all that hot sand? |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 16, 2023 13:22:08 GMT
The physics tells me where to look. So why are you not finding it all that hot sand? How would you store energy for 6 months sufficient to heat every house in the land? All you have ever mentioned is some very backward system that could have been built with technology a century old. I suggest you try harder. The physics says it is possible and tells you what performance you could achieve under optimum conditions.
For sand we are looking at about 600kWh storage per cubic meter. That's a little over the energy density of a battery, but a lot cheaper.
The other way of course would be to send the electricity down a very long cable to where the sun shines in our winter.
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Post by besoeker3 on Apr 16, 2023 13:38:26 GMT
So why are you not finding it all that hot sand? How would you store energy for 6 months sufficient to heat every house in the land? All you have ever mentioned is some very backward system that could have been built with technology a century old. I suggest you try harder. The physics says it is possible and tells you what performance you could achieve under optimum conditions.
For sand we are looking at about 600kWh storage per cubic meter. That's a little over the energy density of a battery, but a lot cheaper.
So why don't you use it you YOUR house? Why doesn't everyone use every house in the land given the sand is so prolific? It's not exactly as if our humans have never found it scarce............. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 16, 2023 13:46:18 GMT
How would you store energy for 6 months sufficient to heat every house in the land? All you have ever mentioned is some very backward system that could have been built with technology a century old. I suggest you try harder. The physics says it is possible and tells you what performance you could achieve under optimum conditions.
For sand we are looking at about 600kWh storage per cubic meter. That's a little over the energy density of a battery, but a lot cheaper.
So why don't you use it you YOUR house? Why doesn't everyone use every house in the land given the sand is so prolific? It's not exactly as if our humans have never found scarce............. I thought you understood basic mathematics. Re-read my previous posts in this thread and there you will find the answer. |
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Post by besoeker3 on Apr 16, 2023 13:55:37 GMT
So why don't you use it you YOUR house? Why doesn't everyone use every house in the land given the sand is so prolific? It's not exactly as if our humans have never found scarce............. I thought you understood basic mathematics. Re-read my previous posts in this thread and there you will find the answer. The problem is that you haven't got the answer otherwise you would have already the 1700C hot sand solution. Or electricity storage or that matter. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 16, 2023 14:00:21 GMT
I thought you understood basic mathematics. Re-read my previous posts in this thread and there you will find the answer. The problem is that you haven't got the answer otherwise you would have already the 1700C hot sand solution. Or electricity storage or that matter. I see you are incapable of comprehending the flow of conversation. You asked why sand is not used on a domestic basic, presumably as a replacement of the batteries I mentioned in the post you followed on from. I said the answer to that is already explained. Now you conflate it with a different scenario that I propose. |
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Post by besoeker3 on Apr 16, 2023 14:15:12 GMT
The problem is that you haven't got the answer otherwise you would have already the 1700C hot sand solution. Or electricity storage or that matter. I see you are incapable of comprehending the flow of conversation. You asked why sand is not used on a domestic basic, presumably as a replacement of the batteries I mentioned in the post you followed on from. I said the answer to that is already explained. Now you conflate it with a different scenario that I propose. OK. Cut to the chase. Why isn't sand used a storage an an energy system? |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 16, 2023 14:33:46 GMT
I see you are incapable of comprehending the flow of conversation. You asked why sand is not used on a domestic basic, presumably as a replacement of the batteries I mentioned in the post you followed on from. I said the answer to that is already explained. Now you conflate it with a different scenario that I propose. OK. Cut to the chase. Why isn't sand used a storage an an energy system? Your grammar is now screwed. I think you must be pissed. |
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