|
|
Post by see2 on Apr 2, 2023 12:49:45 GMT
I think the fight to keep heavy industry was lost before Wilson. Already India and China were manufacturing at 2/3rds the cost. We won for a while with technology but even that's gone now. It was lost due to a succession of useless governments, unions and management but the biggest nail in the coffin was hammered home by the Attlee government when, instead of spending Marshall Aid money on renewing our industrial base and infrastructure, it threw the money and the effort behind nationalising anything that moved or stayed still For goodness sake, stop spreading Tory propaganda. There was nothing wrong with British industry in 1945, it was full of high class gear used for the war effort. The problem was then and has always been the problem in that industrialists put bank accounts too far ahead of country. The UK had an open market in Europe, we failed because we sold inferior products. The likes of steel and the railways were nationalised because they were found wanting when the war broke out. The mindset at the time in terms of wars was that a war was likely around every 25 years. And private investment could not be relied upon to do the job. ALL because industrialists put their Bank accounts way too far ahead of the country's needs. |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Apr 2, 2023 12:59:43 GMT
I asked a horse the other day what we should do to help the economy. He seemed to think it was eat more grass.   Next ask a politician, they won't have a clue. So lets stick with eat more grass. |
|
|
|
Post by dodgydave on Apr 2, 2023 14:17:36 GMT
Don't forget... the queen of "fully costed spending" got caught using her parliamentary credit card for personal use... to the tune of £4,000 lol.
The media are going to have a field day at the next election... Labour's finger point is going to backfire spectacularly.
They need to stop being woke idiots and give us a positive vision and be realistic about how it is going to be funded.
|
|
|
|
Post by Steve on Apr 2, 2023 14:27:50 GMT
It was lost due to a succession of useless governments, unions and management but the biggest nail in the coffin was hammered home by the Attlee government when, instead of spending Marshall Aid money on renewing our industrial base and infrastructure, it threw the money and the effort behind nationalising anything that moved or stayed still For goodness sake, stop spreading Tory propaganda. There was nothing wrong with British industry in 1945, it was full of high class gear used for the war effort. The problem was then and has always been the problem in that industrialists put bank accounts too far ahead of country. The UK had an open market in Europe, we failed because we sold inferior products. The likes of steel and the railways were nationalised because they were found wanting when the war broke out. The mindset at the time in terms of wars was that a war was likely around every 25 years. And private investment could not be relied upon to do the job. ALL because industrialists put their Bank accounts way too far ahead of the country's needs. We haven't had a Manufacturing Strategy worth its salt since WW2. To governments ever since Manufacturing has been a dirty word despite it being an essential area of employment and a strategic need. Labour at heart think private employers are evil so should be taxed more for the more they employ people and the Tories think it's better to have their mates get rich importing stuff from the far East. |
|
|
|
Post by patman post on Apr 2, 2023 15:16:27 GMT
Controlled immigration is whats needed , not the all or nothing approach by both labour and torys depending on the court of public opinion .
Agree 100% — I do not understand why such logical thinking is so foreign to so many forum posters...
|
|
|
|
Post by patman post on Apr 2, 2023 16:07:12 GMT
If Industry had responded to government help when Wilson spoke of 'the red hot heat of industry' (or words to that affect) then perhaps workers could have tasted some of that milk and honey? But, as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. I think the fight to keep heavy industry was lost before Wilson. Already India and China were manufacturing at 2/3rds the cost. We won for a while with technology but even that's gone now. You said it, "heavy industry"!
The industrialised and developed world was already moving on from the metal bashing and drop-forging basis of its industrial and economic wealth. From 1948, western European countries were investing Marshall Aid dollars in rebuilding infrastructure and industry, except for the UK.
The bankrupt UK got over a quarter of the total Marshall Aid, but instead of investing in its economy, it spent large chunks on its military and endeavouring to keep itself as the head of an empire. Meanwhile, its industry returned to bashing out machine tools and spanners for export, and British Railways made its last steam loco in 1960.
It wasn't until 1964 that government had the chance of harnessing the ‘white heat of the technological revolution’ to create a different kind of country — and Wilson shoved aside the privileged old boy’s club running the show, and said (what many Brexiteers today need to realise): "nostalgia won’t pay the bills; the world doesn’t owe us a living; and we must harness the scientific revolution to win in the years to come".
But Wilson inherited an overstretched military and a £400 million balance of payments deficit, causing successive sterling crises. Research and innovations in aircraft, computers, electronics put UK technology up with the leaders. But government and industry wasn't able to fund its advances, and the UK struggled to keep in touch. Which is more or less where the UK has fallen back to today...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2023 16:10:53 GMT
Controlled immigration is whats needed , not the all or nothing approach by both labour and torys depending on the court of public opinion .
Agree 100% — I do not understand why such logical thinking is so foreign to so many forum posters...
I haven't seen anyone on the forum suggest otherwise, so perhaps you can name them. |
|
|
|
Post by patman post on Apr 2, 2023 16:20:37 GMT
Agree 100% — I do not understand why such logical thinking is so foreign to so many forum posters...
I haven't seen anyone on the forum suggest otherwise, so perhaps you can name them. Is that another of your best b4 responses?
See, like you, I can respond with questions...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2023 16:27:45 GMT
I haven't seen anyone on the forum suggest otherwise, so perhaps you can name them. Is that another of your best b4 responses?
See, like you, I can respond with questions...
I guess I will just have to dismiss you as another liar and a pathetic attempt at trolling. |
|
|
|
Post by Toreador on Apr 2, 2023 16:39:50 GMT
It was lost due to a succession of useless governments, unions and management but the biggest nail in the coffin was hammered home by the Attlee government when, instead of spending Marshall Aid money on renewing our industrial base and infrastructure, it threw the money and the effort behind nationalising anything that moved or stayed still For goodness sake, stop spreading Tory propaganda. There was nothing wrong with British industry in 1945, it was full of high class gear used for the war effort. The problem was then and has always been the problem in that industrialists put bank accounts too far ahead of country. The UK had an open market in Europe, we failed because we sold inferior products. The likes of steel and the railways were nationalised because they were found wanting when the war broke out. The mindset at the time in terms of wars was that a war was likely around every 25 years. And private investment could not be relied upon to do the job. ALL because industrialists put their Bank accounts way too far ahead of the country's needs. You said that once before, you were wrong then. |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Apr 2, 2023 17:04:01 GMT
It was lost due to a succession of useless governments, unions and management but the biggest nail in the coffin was hammered home by the Attlee government when, instead of spending Marshall Aid money on renewing our industrial base and infrastructure, it threw the money and the effort behind nationalising anything that moved or stayed still For goodness sake, stop spreading Tory propaganda. There was nothing wrong with British industry in 1945, it was full of high class gear used for the war effort. The problem was then and has always been the problem in that industrialists put bank accounts too far ahead of country. The UK had an open market in Europe, we failed because we sold inferior products. The likes of steel and the railways were nationalised because they were found wanting when the war broke out. The mindset at the time in terms of wars was that a war was likely around every 25 years. And private investment could not be relied upon to do the job. ALL because industrialists put their Bank accounts way too far ahead of the country's needs. LOL - that load of nonsense takes the biscuit for today.  After 6 years of wartime production and no investment the entire UK industrial sector was clapped out... The Wasting of Britain's Marshall AidThe root cause of this self-destructive British choice lies back in 1945, when Great Britain, as one of the 'Big Three' along with the United States and the Soviet Union, emerged from World War Two with the psychology of a victor but with her economic circumstances more resembling those of a defeated country. Despite the victory over Hitler, Britain was literally bankrupt, and faced the prospect of unbridgeable balance-of-payments deficits for years to come.
|
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Apr 2, 2023 17:09:32 GMT
For goodness sake, stop spreading Tory propaganda. There was nothing wrong with British industry in 1945, it was full of high class gear used for the war effort. The problem was then and has always been the problem in that industrialists put bank accounts too far ahead of country. The UK had an open market in Europe, we failed because we sold inferior products. The likes of steel and the railways were nationalised because they were found wanting when the war broke out. The mindset at the time in terms of wars was that a war was likely around every 25 years. And private investment could not be relied upon to do the job. ALL because industrialists put their Bank accounts way too far ahead of the country's needs. You said that once before, you were wrong then. I would certainly agree with see2 that private investment in the UK is short sighted and greedy. Exits of 5 years are very common with investors expecting to make 150% returns in that period. We had many such offers before we found our more long term investment. |
|
|
|
Post by sheepy on Apr 2, 2023 17:19:57 GMT
For goodness sake, stop spreading Tory propaganda. There was nothing wrong with British industry in 1945, it was full of high class gear used for the war effort. The problem was then and has always been the problem in that industrialists put bank accounts too far ahead of country. The UK had an open market in Europe, we failed because we sold inferior products. The likes of steel and the railways were nationalised because they were found wanting when the war broke out. The mindset at the time in terms of wars was that a war was likely around every 25 years. And private investment could not be relied upon to do the job. ALL because industrialists put their Bank accounts way too far ahead of the country's needs. LOL - that load of nonsense takes the biscuit for today. After 6 years of wartime production and no investment the entire UK industrial sector was clapped out... The Wasting of Britain's Marshall AidThe root cause of this self-destructive British choice lies back in 1945, when Great Britain, as one of the 'Big Three' along with the United States and the Soviet Union, emerged from World War Two with the psychology of a victor but with her economic circumstances more resembling those of a defeated country. Despite the victory over Hitler, Britain was literally bankrupt, and faced the prospect of unbridgeable balance-of-payments deficits for years to come.
A bit true, after WW2 the UK's government still saw themselves as owners of Empire and a great military power, this of course was all bollox, they were in hock to the yanks for the next 40 years and had to accept any crumbs coming our way, we had won the war, but were about to squander the peace, it wasn't until Suez that the real rude awakening occurred. |
|
|
|
Post by borchester on Apr 2, 2023 17:32:28 GMT
A few years back I was looking at properties in the Home Counties and every other place had some sort office or workshop where folk tried to make a few bob. They were not always successful, but mostly the owners had a dream of being at least half their own men or women and felt that the only people they could really rely on were themselves.
Today, we look to government to run our lives for us. We hate anyone who does well and are horrified that we should take our coats off for anyone, including ourselves, which is why all our heavy industry is in the hands of hard grafting Chinese and Huns.
|
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Apr 2, 2023 17:36:34 GMT
A few years back I was looking at properties in the Home Counties and every other place had some sort office or workshop where folk tried to make a few bob. They were not always successful, but mostly the owners had a dream of being at least half their own men or women and felt that the only people they could really rely on were themselves.
Today, we look to government to run our lives for us. We hate anyone who does well and are horrified that we should take our coats off for anyone, including ourselves, which is why all our heavy industry is in the hands of hard grafting Chinese and Huns.
borkie , i thought that said where the workshy tried to make a few bob.
Between my tired old eyes , and your infamous reputation at HMRC as being the office grafter , its not hard to get the wrong end of the stick in here.
I take yer point though.
|
|
