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Post by thomas on Apr 2, 2023 9:13:25 GMT
Considering Labour screwed up so bad under the arrogant and somewhat blatantly evil Tony Blair, where we're now in a worse position to combat these new fads, and considering the OP by Pacifico that highlights a totally imcompetent bunch on these matters, I think it's safe to argue that Starmer is not the answer. i dont think starmer is the answer either , but according to the polls , the uk prefer labour to the disaster that is the tories.
In every single area polled , the optimism of the uk electorate under the current tory government is extremely poor. The only thing i can see where the tories arent that bad compared to labour is the favourability of the leaders.
Its still possible of course for the tories to turn this around but as the days pass , sunak and co are gradually running out of time.
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Post by zanygame on Apr 2, 2023 9:13:27 GMT
Manufacturing in terms of jobs and relevance to the uk economy did drop under blair , but again , you are cherry picking . The golden age of uk manufacturing was supposed to have been the 50`s and 60`s , and as this article makes clear the responsibility for the decline in uk manufacturing is long and varied....
Agree here.
One of the biggest causes for the lack of manufacturing in the UK is the short term and expensive investment available to British entrepreneurs.
UK Governments hands off approach to this has driven much of that new development abroad.
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Post by thomas on Apr 2, 2023 9:20:59 GMT
The stars certainly seem to be aligning for the labour party . The state of the uk in general under the tories , the implosion of the snp under useless , the unfolding brexit disaster and cost of living crises all hitting home.
If starmer cant win the next election in the two horse first past the post uk stitch up then labour should pack up politics and disband .
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 2, 2023 10:33:17 GMT
The problem with forcing up wages by restricting those available is that it doesn't address the underlying causes. 1, Competition from emerging economies. 2, Automation and artificial intelligence. We can't do much about emerging economies unless or until their wages begin to match ours. By example: The current shortage of workers caused a 12% rise in pay in my company, but at the same time we fast forwarded some new technology that cut the number of employees needed by about 10%. It was a balancing act as we feel the AI we introduced may not be as good as the humans it replaced, but was made necessary by the lack of staff and the costs of employing them. You have to understand that once these changes are put in place, they never reverse. So as my company continues to grow it will always employ 10% less staff.
What we need to address how we distribute money in the future. Which is precisely what we want - productivity in the UK is dire, so a shortage of workers that makes investing in technology and automation is soemthing that we have needed for decades. |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 2, 2023 10:37:49 GMT
Manufacturing in terms of jobs and relevance to the uk economy did drop under blair , but again , you are cherry picking . The golden age of uk manufacturing was supposed to have been the 50`s and 60`s , and as this article makes clear the responsibility for the decline in uk manufacturing is long and varied.... [/div]
Yet when we left the EU and the Pound lost value against other countries that was held up as a bad thing by Remainers and an example of Brexit being bad for the economy.. The sinner repents? |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 2, 2023 10:53:18 GMT
The problem with forcing up wages by restricting those available is that it doesn't address the underlying causes. 1, Competition from emerging economies. 2, Automation and artificial intelligence. We can't do much about emerging economies unless or until their wages begin to match ours. By example: The current shortage of workers caused a 12% rise in pay in my company, but at the same time we fast forwarded some new technology that cut the number of employees needed by about 10%. It was a balancing act as we feel the AI we introduced may not be as good as the humans it replaced, but was made necessary by the lack of staff and the costs of employing them. You have to understand that once these changes are put in place, they never reverse. So as my company continues to grow it will always employ 10% less staff.
What we need to address how we distribute money in the future. Which is precisely what we want - productivity in the UK is dire, so a shortage of workers that makes investing in technology and automation is something that we have needed for decades. You'd think. But this doesn't put the money in the working mans pocket. Some gain, others lose their jobs to automation or production abroad. Long term it means the more money going to those at the top who pushed forward the automation. I'm not just talking about the UK here, unlike you I don't think we can separate ourselves from the world economies. So the AI we develop leads to others using it, already I have conversations with other business men about how well ours is working, is it affecting sales, etc. If you propose to reduce the workforce every year to match the change to automation, then that's great but you will need to take more from those to whom the money goes to support the growing number of pensioners. Unless you're thinking of reducing them as well ? |
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Post by Toreador on Apr 2, 2023 12:06:41 GMT
You need to go back some 55 years when one senior politician forecast that in the not too distant future most workers would become redundant as robots took over and those redundant workers would get payed for staying at home. Within less than ten years many of those workers, union members, had fucked up by opposing anything automation, helped along by Heath and the man who made the prophesy of milk and honey for those out of work, Harold, not Steptoe but Wilson.
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Post by see2 on Apr 2, 2023 12:14:15 GMT
The problem with forcing up wages by restricting those available is that it doesn't address the underlying causes. 1, Competition from emerging economies. 2, Automation and artificial intelligence. We can't do much about emerging economies unless or until their wages begin to match ours. By example: The current shortage of workers caused a 12% rise in pay in my company, but at the same time we fast forwarded some new technology that cut the number of employees needed by about 10%. It was a balancing act as we feel the AI we introduced may not be as good as the humans it replaced, but was made necessary by the lack of staff and the costs of employing them. You have to understand that once these changes are put in place, they never reverse. So as my company continues to grow it will always employ 10% less staff.
What we need to address how we distribute money in the future. Which is precisely what we want - productivity in the UK is dire, so a shortage of workers that makes investing in technology and automation is soemthing that we have needed for decades. As far as I'm aware we have had a shortage of workers for decades, which is why the UK had so many skilled and professional migrants in the country. |
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Post by see2 on Apr 2, 2023 12:19:37 GMT
You need to go back some 55 years when one senior politician forecast that in the not too distant future most workers would become redundant as robots took over and those redundant workers would get payed for staying at home. Within less than ten years many of those workers, union members, had fucked up by opposing anything automation, helped along by Heath and the man who made the prophesy of milk and honey for those out of work, Harold, not Steptoe but Wilson. If Industry had responded to government help when Wilson spoke of 'the red hot heat of industry' (or words to that affect) then perhaps workers could have tasted some of that milk and honey? But, as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. |
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Post by Toreador on Apr 2, 2023 12:21:14 GMT
You need to go back some 55 years when one senior politician forecast that in the not too distant future most workers would become redundant as robots took over and those redundant workers would get payed for staying at home. Within less than ten years many of those workers, union members, had fucked up by opposing anything automation, helped along by Heath and the man who made the prophesy of milk and honey for those out of work, Harold, not Steptoe but Wilson. If Industry had responded to government help when Wilson spoke of 'the red hot heat of industry' (or words to that affect) then perhaps workers could have tasted some of that milk and honey? But, as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Horses were brighter than politicians and still are. |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 2, 2023 12:23:25 GMT
You need to go back some 55 years when one senior politician forecast that in the not too distant future most workers would become redundant as robots took over and those redundant workers would get payed for staying at home. Within less than ten years many of those workers, union members, had fucked up by opposing anything automation, helped along by Heath and the man who made the prophesy of milk and honey for those out of work, Harold, not Steptoe but Wilson. Its interesting when you watch old sci fi movies to see what we thought automation wold look like. Giant computers running the planet, robot housemaids and car makers. No one thought of internet banking or accountancy software as taking peoples jobs. I agree with the short sighted approach of the unions, failing to recognise the inevitable. British Leyland and their stupid rules that said the man who fits the bumper is not allowed to go and fetch it. |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 2, 2023 12:25:30 GMT
You need to go back some 55 years when one senior politician forecast that in the not too distant future most workers would become redundant as robots took over and those redundant workers would get payed for staying at home. Within less than ten years many of those workers, union members, had fucked up by opposing anything automation, helped along by Heath and the man who made the prophesy of milk and honey for those out of work, Harold, not Steptoe but Wilson. If Industry had responded to government help when Wilson spoke of 'the red hot heat of industry' (or words to that affect) then perhaps workers could have tasted some of that milk and honey? But, as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. I think the fight to keep heavy industry was lost before Wilson. Already India and China were manufacturing at 2/3rds the cost. We won for a while with technology but even that's gone now. |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 2, 2023 12:26:56 GMT
If Industry had responded to government help when Wilson spoke of 'the red hot heat of industry' (or words to that affect) then perhaps workers could have tasted some of that milk and honey? But, as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Horses were brighter than politicians and still are. I asked a horse the other day what we should do to help the economy. He seemed to think it was eat more grass.   |
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Post by Toreador on Apr 2, 2023 12:38:39 GMT
If Industry had responded to government help when Wilson spoke of 'the red hot heat of industry' (or words to that affect) then perhaps workers could have tasted some of that milk and honey? But, as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. I think the fight to keep heavy industry was lost before Wilson. Already India and China were manufacturing at 2/3rds the cost. We won for a while with technology but even that's gone now. It was lost due to a succession of useless governments, unions and management but the biggest nail in the coffin was hammered home by the Attlee government when, instead of spending Marshall Aid money on renewing our industrial base and infrastructure, it threw the money and the effort behind nationalising anything that moved or stayed still |
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Post by Toreador on Apr 2, 2023 12:39:45 GMT
Horses were brighter than politicians and still are. I asked a horse the other day what we should do to help the economy. He seemed to think it was eat more grass. Next ask a politician, they won't have a clue. |
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