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Post by Pacifico on Apr 7, 2023 6:44:01 GMT
well as highlighted in the article, the OBR are forecasting a slump in investment caused by the higher business taxes. what leads you to believe their forecast is incorrect? The telegraph is behind a paywall. The Telegraph plays to its audience, just like any media. Those who read the Telegraph want o hear high tax is bad. Well it not just the Telegraph or the OBR saying this.. Corporate Taxes Reduce Investment: New Evidence from GermanyFirms react to increases in corporate taxes by investing less than previously planned: a one percentage point increase in corporate taxes is associated with a cut in firm investment of around three percent. |
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Post by Orac on Apr 7, 2023 7:40:22 GMT
To summarise- A tax policy is a choice between lowering economic activity and lowering government expenditure. Tax has very little effect on investment. Ask any inventor or entrepreneur if they considered the tax rate when they set up and they'll laugh at you. Much the same with investors, they want a winning idea and a stable economy, that's how they get a return. This is a bit like saying that the price of car is not at all important because customers want four wheels and an engine Silly, bizarre gaslighting |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 7, 2023 18:00:27 GMT
The telegraph is behind a paywall. The Telegraph plays to its audience, just like any media. Those who read the Telegraph want o hear high tax is bad. Well it not just the Telegraph or the OBR saying this.. Corporate Taxes Reduce Investment: New Evidence from GermanyFirms react to increases in corporate taxes by investing less than previously planned: a one percentage point increase in corporate taxes is associated with a cut in firm investment of around three percent.Well I'd be a fool to argue this, but I'm not. I haven't argued raising corporate tax does lower investments by corporates. I've argued that corporate tax levels are not important to new business and innovators. I'm arguing for better investment availability to new companies with new ideas. I think new ideas and innovations are the UK's best chance of keeping her place in the Western world. |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 7, 2023 18:07:11 GMT
Tax has very little effect on investment. Ask any inventor or entrepreneur if they considered the tax rate when they set up and they'll laugh at you. Much the same with investors, they want a winning idea and a stable economy, that's how they get a return. This is a bit like saying that the price of car is not at all important because customers want four wheels and an engine Silly, bizarre gaslighting Its nothing like that at all. Which shows your lack of understanding. When someone invents a new gadget they do not think "I wont develop this because the tax is a bit high if I succeed." I can tell you from personal experience that you think about how you get it out there, how you finance it. By the time you get to thinking about corporate tax you've already made it. You borrow, you invest, you sell shares, you grow. Its years before you make any sort of profit and years more before you pay corporate tax,. |
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Post by Orac on Apr 7, 2023 18:33:41 GMT
This is a bit like saying that the price of car is not at all important because customers want four wheels and an engine Silly, bizarre gaslighting Its nothing like that at all. Which shows your lack of understanding. When someone invents a new gadget they do not think "I wont develop this because the tax is a bit high if I succeed." That's not how things work in reality. An investor will evaluate risk vs reward and a government hammering away at success in order to fund their pet political projects, will change the shape of that calculation. |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 7, 2023 20:10:47 GMT
Its nothing like that at all. Which shows your lack of understanding. When someone invents a new gadget they do not think "I wont develop this because the tax is a bit high if I succeed." That's not how things work in reality. An investor will evaluate risk vs reward and a government hammering away at success in order to fund their pet political projects, will change the shape of that calculation. Well I'm living proof that that is how it works in reality. You on the other hand.... .. |
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Post by borchester on Apr 7, 2023 20:47:07 GMT
To summarise- A tax policy is a choice between lowering economic activity and lowering government expenditure. Tax has very little effect on investment. Ask any inventor or entrepreneur if they considered the tax rate when they set up and they'll laugh at you. Much the same with investors, they want a winning idea and a stable economy, that's how they get a return. Big business and corporates want low tax, but that's because they are already successful and because they are successful they are not going to pull out unless the tax makes profit impossible.
You should tell the Irish.
In 2016–17, foreign firms paid 80% of Irish corporate tax and employed 25% of the Irish labour force.
Ireland's corporation tax rate is 12.5%, which is about a third of what the EU hopes for. However, with a bit of manoeuvring by the foreign investors and help from the Irish government, even this canbe reduced to as little as 2.2%
It could be that all those foreign firms are investing in Ireland purely because of the colleens and the craic, but I am not so sure that is the case
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 7, 2023 21:07:36 GMT
Well it not just the Telegraph or the OBR saying this.. Corporate Taxes Reduce Investment: New Evidence from GermanyFirms react to increases in corporate taxes by investing less than previously planned: a one percentage point increase in corporate taxes is associated with a cut in firm investment of around three percent.Well I'd be a fool to argue this, but I'm not. I haven't argued raising corporate tax does lower investments by corporates. I've argued that corporate tax levels are not important to new business and innovators. I'm arguing for better investment availability to new companies with new ideas. I think new ideas and innovations are the UK's best chance of keeping her place in the Western world. Well as the UK is the best VC destination by far in Europe I'm not sure how much more we can do. Here is a good comparison of the VC industry in Europe and how it compares worldwide - the hilarious thing is that it is a survey funded by Silicon Valley Bank..  European VC Pulse Check |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 8, 2023 6:41:12 GMT
Tax has very little effect on investment. Ask any inventor or entrepreneur if they considered the tax rate when they set up and they'll laugh at you. Much the same with investors, they want a winning idea and a stable economy, that's how they get a return. Big business and corporates want low tax, but that's because they are already successful and because they are successful they are not going to pull out unless the tax makes profit impossible.
You should tell the Irish.
In 2016–17, foreign firms paid 80% of Irish corporate tax and employed 25% of the Irish labour force.
Ireland's corporation tax rate is 12.5%, which is about a third of what the EU hopes for. However, with a bit of manoeuvring by the foreign investors and help from the Irish government, even this canbe reduced to as little as 2.2%
It could be that all those foreign firms are investing in Ireland purely because of the colleens and the craic, but I am not so sure that is the case
And what proportion of all Irelands tax did that corporate tax represent? |
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Post by sheepy on Apr 8, 2023 6:51:07 GMT
Well I'd be a fool to argue this, but I'm not. I haven't argued raising corporate tax does lower investments by corporates. I've argued that corporate tax levels are not important to new business and innovators. I'm arguing for better investment availability to new companies with new ideas. I think new ideas and innovations are the UK's best chance of keeping her place in the Western world. Well as the UK is the best VC destination by far in Europe I'm not sure how much more we can do. Here is a good comparison of the VC industry in Europe and how it compares worldwide - the hilarious thing is that it is a survey funded by Silicon Valley Bank.. European VC Pulse Check Simple fact, if people don't have spare money after commodity bills and food then you won't be buying anything else, unless you hock yourself to the eyeballs. |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 8, 2023 7:24:56 GMT
Well I'd be a fool to argue this, but I'm not. I haven't argued raising corporate tax does lower investments by corporates. I've argued that corporate tax levels are not important to new business and innovators. I'm arguing for better investment availability to new companies with new ideas. I think new ideas and innovations are the UK's best chance of keeping her place in the Western world. Well as the UK is the best VC destination by far in Europe I'm not sure how much more we can do. Here is a good comparison of the VC industry in Europe and how it compares worldwide - the hilarious thing is that it is a survey funded by Silicon Valley Bank.. European VC Pulse Check Yes those business angels, the only investment available to start ups in the UK. The ones I described as greedy and short sighted. Crowd funding is helping, but it would be good if bank loans for new ideas kept the value of the idea with the inventors. |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 8, 2023 7:31:01 GMT
Well as the UK is the best VC destination by far in Europe I'm not sure how much more we can do. Here is a good comparison of the VC industry in Europe and how it compares worldwide - the hilarious thing is that it is a survey funded by Silicon Valley Bank.. European VC Pulse Check Simple fact, if people don't have spare money after commodity bills and food then you won't be buying anything else, unless you hock yourself to the eyeballs. Agreed. How the government thinks raising interest rates will curb inflation when that inflation is almost entirely due to the cost of essentials, food and fuel. The average family already 3-400 pounds worse off due to these now find themselves giving an extra 500 quid to their bank of building society. Smacks of the rich with money to invest making yet more money out of a crisis. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2023 7:38:15 GMT
Its nothing like that at all. Which shows your lack of understanding. When someone invents a new gadget they do not think "I wont develop this because the tax is a bit high if I succeed." That's not how things work in reality. An investor will evaluate risk vs reward and a government hammering away at success in order to fund their pet political projects, will change the shape of that calculation. I believe it's called pitching. |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 8, 2023 7:49:43 GMT
That's not how things work in reality. An investor will evaluate risk vs reward and a government hammering away at success in order to fund their pet political projects, will change the shape of that calculation. I believe it's called pitching. Oh yes I remember doing that. |
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Post by sheepy on Apr 8, 2023 21:23:00 GMT
Simple fact, if people don't have spare money after commodity bills and food then you won't be buying anything else, unless you hock yourself to the eyeballs. Agreed. How the government thinks raising interest rates will curb inflation when that inflation is almost entirely due to the cost of essentials, food and fuel. The average family already 3-400 pounds worse off due to these now find themselves giving an extra 500 quid to their bank of building society. Smacks of the rich with money to invest making yet more money out of a crisis. It is all rather nuts, but hey ho, as Victor Hugo once said The paradise of the rich is made out of the hell of the poor. |
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