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Post by Pacifico on Apr 3, 2023 7:09:02 GMT
How so? You and i have discussed this time and again .Of course a lot , if not the majority of brexit supporters wanted to remain in the single market. You were telling people you could have the benefits of th single market , but none of the cons. That exactly the point im making about brexit delusion. Thats exactly the point im making to you about trade negotiations . Thats exactly the point im making to you about the empire mentality . So if i fail to see you nuance , for example how you would stay in the single market , but not have Freedom of movement , ecj jurisdictions and all the other brexiter red lines , then by all means , expalin your nuance. But these 'brexiter red lines' are what you invented - as I have already pointed out, many who wanted to leave the EU were quite relaxed about FoM etc. yes for some that was a key issue - but for others it was not. Yet for some reason you have this rather odd idea that all those who supported Brexit want exactly the same thing - which is palpable nonsense. Take Richard North and Christopher Booker who were campaigning to leave the EU for decades before it happened - they wanted to remain in the Single Market, at least in the short term. "In our view, that means we must in the short to medium term stay in the EU's Single Market. However, the EU has made it abundantly clear that if we want to stay in the Single Market, acceptance of the principle freedom of movement is non-negotiable. We can abolish freedom of movement or we can stay in the single market. We can't do both. On that basis, we have come to the conclusion that, in order to leave the EU and secure the medium and long-term gains that accrue from so doing, we must accept a short-term compromise over freedom of movement."
Your ideologically 'pure' Brexit was not a universal aspiration among those who wanted to leave - perhaps something that Scot Nats need to learn to become more sucessful? |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 3, 2023 7:10:40 GMT
It wasn't without their consent - a majority voted for it. Scotland and northern ireland didnt. That "majority" of the uk argument went right out the window after boris and rishi the remainer left northern ireland in the EU with continued EU citizenship rights.
What happened with Gibraltar anyway pacfico? What dodgy BRINO deal did the tories sign them up to?
Oh not this tedious argument again - we had a vote and your side lost, just live with it and move on with your life.. |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 3, 2023 7:12:02 GMT
How does individual consent work in a Democracy? - Ask rishi sunak. His windsor agreement , which upholds the GFA , applies individual consent in northern ireland. No it does not. |
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Post by thomas on Apr 3, 2023 7:16:59 GMT
How so? You and i have discussed this time and again .Of course a lot , if not the majority of brexit supporters wanted to remain in the single market. You were telling people you could have the benefits of th single market , but none of the cons. That exactly the point im making about brexit delusion. Thats exactly the point im making to you about trade negotiations . Thats exactly the point im making to you about the empire mentality . So if i fail to see you nuance , for example how you would stay in the single market , but not have Freedom of movement , ecj jurisdictions and all the other brexiter red lines , then by all means , expalin your nuance. But these 'brexiter red lines' are what you invented - as I have already pointed out, many who wanted to leave the EU were quite relaxed about FoM etc. yes for some that was a key issue - but for others it was not. Thats all we get now from tory brexiters. Denial. Refusal to accept repsonsibility for the binfire they created.
We have benltey denying EU citizenship exists , then climbing down.
Now you deny FOM , ECJ jurisdiction and all the rest was brexiter red lines.
If you were happy with all the cons of EU membership , it begs the question , why the fuck did you vote leave?
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Post by thomas on Apr 3, 2023 7:19:42 GMT
Scotland and northern ireland didnt. That "majority" of the uk argument went right out the window after boris and rishi the remainer left northern ireland in the EU with continued EU citizenship rights.
What happened with Gibraltar anyway pacfico? What dodgy BRINO deal did the tories sign them up to?
Oh not this tedious argument again - we had a vote and your side lost, just live with it and move on with your life.. Northern ireland got to remain. You cant demand everyone move on when one part of the uk got to reamain and the rest didnt. Its clear to anyone with an ounce of sense that isnt a brain dead tory brexiter that singling out a part of the uk to remain and demanding the rest leaves is going to cause even more anger for those who voted remain.
You can see why not just us , but english and welsh remainers are pissed off.
Only nice but dim tories could possibly tell us one minute brexit was a uk vote ( and gibraltar) and then the next demand only GB leaves.
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Post by thomas on Apr 3, 2023 7:22:18 GMT
Ask rishi sunak. His windsor agreement , which upholds the GFA , applies individual consent in northern ireland. No it does not. Are you now denying each and every individual northern irishman and woman has individual consent in terms of citizenship under the GFA , which allows them the ability to hold foreign passports different to ours , that rishi the remainers windsor sell out upholds?
My christ is there something in the water in england at the minute apart from tory party sewage?
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 3, 2023 7:23:18 GMT
But these 'brexiter red lines' are what you invented - as I have already pointed out, many who wanted to leave the EU were quite relaxed about FoM etc. yes for some that was a key issue - but for others it was not. Thats all we get now from tory brexiters. Denial. Refusal to accept repsonsibility for the binfire they created.
We have benltey denying EU citizenship exists , then climbing down.
Now you deny FOM , ECJ jurisdiction and all the rest was brexiter red lines.
If you were happy with all the cons of EU membership , it begs the question , why the fuck did you vote leave?
LOL - when given evidence that these 'red lines' were never red lines you shove your figures in your ears and start singing La-la-la Waste of time..  |
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Post by thomas on Apr 3, 2023 7:24:14 GMT
Thats all we get now from tory brexiters. Denial. Refusal to accept repsonsibility for the binfire they created.
We have benltey denying EU citizenship exists , then climbing down.
Now you deny FOM , ECJ jurisdiction and all the rest was brexiter red lines.
If you were happy with all the cons of EU membership , it begs the question , why the fuck did you vote leave?
LOL - when given evidence that these 'red lines' were never red lines you shove your figures in your ears and start singing La-la-la Waste of time.. ok , so help me out then , please could you inform me of why you voted to leave the EU .?
What is pacificos red lines?
Over to you?
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 3, 2023 7:24:45 GMT
Are you now denying each and every individual northern irishman and woman has individual consent in terms of citizenship under the GFA , which allows them the ability to hold foreign passports different to ours , that rishi the remainers windsor sell out upholds?
My christ is there something in the water in england at the minute apart from tory party sewage?
FFS we have been all though this rubbish (several times) - the ability to take on the passport of a foreign country has nothing to do with Sunaks deal over NI. |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 3, 2023 7:27:53 GMT
Oh not this tedious argument again - we had a vote and your side lost, just live with it and move on with your life.. Northern ireland got to remain. You cant demand everyone move on when one part of the uk got to reamain and the rest didnt. Its clear to anyone with an ounce of sense that isnt a brain dead tory brexiter that singling out a part of the uk to remain and demanding the rest leaves is going to cause even more anger for those who voted remain. If you dont like the deal that was agreed then get out and vote for an alternative - but 24/7 bitching about it on an obscure internet forum is not going to change anything. NI has a special status die to the GFA - if you are unhappy with that then you should direct your anger at those who agreed the GFA. |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 3, 2023 7:29:11 GMT
LOL - when given evidence that these 'red lines' were never red lines you shove your figures in your ears and start singing La-la-la Waste of time.. ok , so help me out then , please could you inform me of why you voted to leave the EU .?
What is pacificos red lines?
Over to you?
Flexcit or Common Market 2.0 seemed a reasonable compromise to me. However judging by your contribution so far I doubt that you have heard of either. |
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Post by thomas on Apr 3, 2023 7:30:08 GMT
Are you now denying each and every individual northern irishman and woman has individual consent in terms of citizenship under the GFA , which allows them the ability to hold foreign passports different to ours , that rishi the remainers windsor sell out upholds?
My christ is there something in the water in england at the minute apart from tory party sewage?
FFS we have been all though this rubbish (several times) - the ability to take on the passport of a foreign country has nothing to do with Sunaks deal over NI.
Mr Sunak said: “I think what you’ve said isn’t true.
“The Windsor Framework restores the balance of the Belfast Good Friday agreement
Are you now calling your own tory pm a liar?
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Post by thomas on Apr 3, 2023 7:31:38 GMT
Northern ireland got to remain. You cant demand everyone move on when one part of the uk got to reamain and the rest didnt. Its clear to anyone with an ounce of sense that isnt a brain dead tory brexiter that singling out a part of the uk to remain and demanding the rest leaves is going to cause even more anger for those who voted remain. NI has a special status die to the GFA - if you are unhappy with that then you should direct your anger at those who agreed the GFA. ....but....but up to boris signed off the original protocol , you were telling us all northern ireland is part of the uk and had to leave.
So the brexit was a uk vote so the uk had to leave that brexiters waffled on about was all yet another big brexiter lie? |
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Post by thomas on Apr 3, 2023 7:32:29 GMT
ok , so help me out then , please could you inform me of why you voted to leave the EU .?
What is pacificos red lines?
Over to you?
Flexcit or Common Market 2.0 seemed a reasonable compromise to me. However judging by your contribution so far I doubt that you have heard of either. I didnt ask that. I asked can you please tell me why you voted to leave the EU , and what you didnt like about membership? What was your "red lines" ? |
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Post by Bentley on Apr 3, 2023 8:06:44 GMT
You are deluding yourself that you are a citizen of a continent. You are not tomas. You are a British citizen. That is a fact. But what are facts to the deluded? You tell me Tomas , you have put yourself firmly amongst them 😁 Well i have a passport that says EU citizen , so if thats wrong , then logically its wrong too that im a uk citizen as its says that on the passport too.
You seem to be well along on the denial stage , in a couple of years brexiters will be re writing history and trying to pretend the uk was never part of the EU.
Poor Tomas. He wants the quasi, meaningless EU citizenship for EU members when he doesn’t qualify. Then he tells ME I’m in denial. Oh and then he tells lies by claiming I said that the UK was NEVER in the EU. Pitiful but amusing 😁 |
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