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Post by Orac on Mar 30, 2023 8:46:35 GMT
The family connection is another draw and it seems churlish to dismiss it. If you were fleeing your home country, would you not be drawn to somewhere where you had family? It's not a matter of dismissing it, or even dismissing the wish, it's putting things in correct categories. "I need to flee my country because it's dangerous" is not in the same category of moral claim as "I want to be with my family"
I need to flee my country+ I want to be with my family + I will need a house to start a family of my own = I need to come into the uk and be provided with a house
Nothing beyond line 1 can be justified on the basis of the original moral claim. It's scope creep |
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Post by wapentake on Mar 30, 2023 9:15:16 GMT
OK something of a generalisation but indicative of the attitudes of some,an asylum seeker being interviewed
"I don't like being in this hotel,it's boring I want a house with a garden"
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Post by bancroft on Mar 30, 2023 9:49:24 GMT
OK something of a generalisation but indicative of the attitudes of some,an asylum seeker being interviewed " I don't like being in this hotel,it's boring I want a house with a garden" And that is what a lot of working class Brits want too yet are forced to rent. |
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Post by jonksy on Mar 30, 2023 11:18:18 GMT
OK something of a generalisation but indicative of the attitudes of some,an asylum seeker being interviewed " I don't like being in this hotel,it's boring I want a house with a garden" And that is what a lot of working class Brits want too yet are forced to rent.And that is even if they can find one. How many young couples now live with their parents as it's their only option? |
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Post by Cartertonian on Mar 30, 2023 17:00:19 GMT
The family connection is another draw and it seems churlish to dismiss it. If you were fleeing your home country, would you not be drawn to somewhere where you had family? It's not a matter of dismissing it, or even dismissing the wish, it's putting things in correct categories. "I need to flee my country because it's dangerous" is not in the same category of moral claim as "I want to be with my family"
I need to flee my country+ I want to be with my family + I will need a house to start a family of my own = I need to come into the uk and be provided with a house
Nothing beyond line 1 can be justified on the basis of the original moral claim. It's scope creep In terms of the 'original moral claim', then I agree. However I was responding to the question in the OP...'why do all these people want to come here?' There's no doubt that many who cross the channel in small boats are opportunistic economic migrants, but some are not. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Apr 4, 2023 9:08:27 GMT
A big part of the problem is that they all - 'genuine refugees' and opportunistic economic migrants - originate from the same set of extremely grotty countries and our western managerial class is inclined to be over-sympathetic and generous to unfortunates arriving from elsewhere with a story to tell.
Perhaps we need a different incentive scheme for decision-makers, one which rewards refusals with tangible benefits rather than the present one which provides emotional rewards for performing 'good deeds'.
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Post by Montegriffo on Apr 4, 2023 10:17:05 GMT
I believe it is a straightforward matter of the UK being perceived as more welcoming, or at least less hostile, to their presence than anywhere else in Europe. That certainly has a bearing. The UK is the least racist of any country in Europe so that is a major draw. So we should be more racist to discourage them? Treat them as criminals and take away their human rights? |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 4, 2023 14:26:21 GMT
That certainly has a bearing. The UK is the least racist of any country in Europe so that is a major draw. So we should be more racist to discourage them? Treat them as criminals and take away their human rights? There is nothing racist about having controlled migration. If you want to come to the UK for a better life then you should have the correct visa. If you are a refugee or asylum seeker fleeing persecution then it doesn't matter where you end up as long as you escape to somehwere safe and away from the terror that you are fleeing. Becoming a refugee does not give you carte blanche to go country shopping.. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Apr 4, 2023 19:48:09 GMT
To add to the above, if your default approach is one of being welcoming and accommodating it should not come as a great surprise to find that over time ever larger numbers will present themselves at your portals.
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