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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 24, 2023 18:48:36 GMT
Do you remember him? He used to run the Telegraph when it was actually worth the cover price. Now it is a trash paper similar to the Daily Mail.
His view is that there is a ultra ideological so-called right-wing of the Tory Party which are those who voted down the latest deal Rishi secured from the EU and have generally speaking been a big pain in the arse. To name names we would be talking about Johnson, Redwood, Duncan-Smith, Mogg, Truss and so on. He says these people have existed for a long time and for decades being arguing with the more moderate Tories such that the Tory Party is in disarray and generally failing. He goes on to say they live in the past. They have this idea of the empire, their arguments usually refer to the past and they are idealogical rather than practical. He believes they are generally stupid, immature and have a total disregard for speaking the truth, so as you can imagine they are very unhelpful when the rest of the party wants to see some results.
Now in my view a lot of people could say this, but coming from Max Hastings I think one has to take it seriously. He's been around the block a few times, knows politics inside out and is a smart man, plus you could not accuse him of being pro-Labour or anything like that. I've come to the same conclusion myself about living in the past, although I would say it is far more widespread than just this group. It often goes hand in hand with a military background. All that marching eh? Traditions that have been passed down for hundreds of years. Max thinks we aught to get modern.
By the way, since that deal was struck about 2-3 weeks ago Starmer's rating has dropped 7 points.
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Post by Bentley on Mar 24, 2023 18:53:56 GMT
They are not living in the past . Rees Mogg and Truss want( ed) to make the UK a ‘ Singapore on Thames’.
They didn’t want the UK to recolonise it’s former empire.
Johnson just wanted power.
Sunak is a pragmatic realist in a hurry.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 24, 2023 19:33:09 GMT
They are not living in the past . Rees Mogg and Truss want( ed) to make the UK a ‘ Singapore on Thames’. They didn’t want the UK to recolonise it’s former empire. Johnson just wanted power. Sunak is a pragmatic realist in a hurry. Are you aware Johnson studied Classics at Balliol College?
In case you are non-too-familiar with Oxford colleges, Balliol is the most left-wing of them all.
Ah the irony eh? They call them Far-Right, but what they mean is Far-Left. Socialism is ideological/capitalism is pragmatic. Max is on the money.
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Post by Bentley on Mar 24, 2023 19:39:14 GMT
They are not living in the past . Rees Mogg and Truss want( ed) to make the UK a ‘ Singapore on Thames’. They didn’t want the UK to recolonise it’s former empire. Johnson just wanted power. Sunak is a pragmatic realist in a hurry. Are you aware Johnson studied Classics at Balliol College?
In case you are non-too-familiar with Oxford colleges, Balliol is the most left-wing of them all.
Ah the irony eh? They call them Far-Right, but what they mean is Far-Left. Socialism is ideological/capitalism is pragmatic. Max is on the money.
I knew he studied classics in Oxford but I didn’t know which college ( do I get a point ?) so what? Does this refute my point that Johnson only wanted power or was this just a ploy to tell me what I already knew? You can call them what you like but you can’t claim that they are living in the past because it’s bleeding obvious that they are not. I suspect that Truss and Mogg wanted something close to neo liberalism . Low wages , less government, deregulation. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Mar 24, 2023 21:37:40 GMT
Do you remember him? He used to run the Telegraph when it was actually worth the cover price. Now it is a trash paper similar to the Daily Mail.
His view is that there is a ultra ideological so-called right-wing of the Tory Party which are those who voted down the latest deal Rishi secured from the EU and have generally speaking been a big pain in the arse. To name names we would be talking about Johnson, Redwood, Duncan-Smith, Mogg, Truss and so on. He says these people have existed for a long time and for decades being arguing with the more moderate Tories such that the Tory Party is in disarray and generally failing. He goes on to say they live in the past. They have this idea of the empire, their arguments usually refer to the past and they are idealogical rather than practical. He believes they are generally stupid, immature and have a total disregard for speaking the truth, so as you can imagine they are very unhelpful when the rest of the party wants to see some results.
Now in my view a lot of people could say this, but coming from Max Hastings I think one has to take it seriously. He's been around the block a few times, knows politics inside out and is a smart man, plus you could not accuse him of being pro-Labour or anything like that. I've come to the same conclusion myself about living in the past, although I would say it is far more widespread than just this group. It often goes hand in hand with a military background. All that marching eh? Traditions that have been passed down for hundreds of years. Max thinks we aught to get modern.
By the way, since that deal was struck about 2-3 weeks ago Starmer's rating has dropped 7 points.
BvL, I've listened to Hastings talk about Boris a few times over the years and there is one glaring fact that the casual and indeed impartial observer would say stands out like a pork chop at a Bar Mitzvah: Hastings does not like Boris. Ever since Boris's days as a Telegraph hack in Brussels Hastings has not liked him, Hastings has never liked him and this is not a secret. So please don't think you have found a ground breaking link, this is not breaking news. The only people who ever ask Hastings about Boris, are people who want to hear bad news about Boris. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 24, 2023 21:51:15 GMT
Are you aware Johnson studied Classics at Balliol College?
In case you are non-too-familiar with Oxford colleges, Balliol is the most left-wing of them all.
Ah the irony eh? They call them Far-Right, but what they mean is Far-Left. Socialism is ideological/capitalism is pragmatic. Max is on the money.
I knew he studied classics in Oxford but I didn’t know which college ( do I get a point ) so what? Does this refute my point that Johnson only wanted power or was this just a ploy to tell me what I already knew? You can call them what you like but you can’t claim that they are living in the past because it’s bleeding obvious that they are not. I suspect that Truss and Mogg wanted something close to neo liberalism . Low wages , less government, deregulation. The Chinese government think they are living in the past. They call it the cold war mentality.
This is not specifically about Johnson though. I think he broadly meant the ERG. I was wondering whether to use ERG or Right-Wing in the title, but they often refer to the same thing in the press or they say "the right of the party".
Farage is really one that fits squarely into this group, albeit he is not in the party, but part of the wider movement. This forum have many of the type and there were far more of them in the forums connected to UKIP. These so called Right-Wingers will typically know every battle fought in the WW2, have a history degree's worth of knowledge about the Nazis and all of that.
Now for the future: 3D printed homes, artificial organs, quantum computers, trains that travel at the speed of sound...
The thing is the future is sophisticated, the past is simple. You look at some of the leaders in more developed countries. You see quite a few engineers. Engineering is a dirty word though in Oxford. That place is a museum. It's brainwashing the students. Most civil servants come from Oxford, and many MPs.
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Post by Bentley on Mar 24, 2023 22:00:54 GMT
I knew he studied classics in Oxford but I didn’t know which college ( do I get a point ) so what? Does this refute my point that Johnson only wanted power or was this just a ploy to tell me what I already knew? You can call them what you like but you can’t claim that they are living in the past because it’s bleeding obvious that they are not. I suspect that Truss and Mogg wanted something close to neo liberalism . Low wages , less government, deregulation. The Chinese government think they are living in the past. They call it the cold war mentality.
This is not specifically about Johnson though. I think he broadly meant the ERG. I was wondering whether to use ERG or Right-Wing in the title, but they often refer to the same thing in the press or they say "the right of the party".
Farage is really one that fits squarely into this group, albeit he is not in the party, but part of the wider movement. This forum have many of the type and there were far more of them in the forums connected to UKIP. These so called Right-Wingers will typically know every battle fought in the WW2, have a history degree's worth of knowledge about the Nazis and all of that.
Now for the future: 3D printed homes, artificial organs, quantum computers, trains that travel at the speed of sound...
The thing is the future is sophisticated, the past is simple. You look at some of the leaders in more developed countries. You see quite a few engineers. Engineering is a dirty word though in Oxford. That place is a museum. It's brainwashing the students. Most civil servants come from Oxford, and many MPs.
Well that’s rich coming from the Chinese who hold a grudge against the west from the Opium wars . Yes I realise that you meant broadly the ERG but the ERG want a Singapore on Thames not a recolonisation of India. If being proud of your history is right wing then the Chinese must be the most right wing country in Earth . I see where you are going though . I think the likes of Mogg and Johnson see the ordinary person as an oik . |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 24, 2023 22:03:23 GMT
Do you remember him? He used to run the Telegraph when it was actually worth the cover price. Now it is a trash paper similar to the Daily Mail.
His view is that there is a ultra ideological so-called right-wing of the Tory Party which are those who voted down the latest deal Rishi secured from the EU and have generally speaking been a big pain in the arse. To name names we would be talking about Johnson, Redwood, Duncan-Smith, Mogg, Truss and so on. He says these people have existed for a long time and for decades being arguing with the more moderate Tories such that the Tory Party is in disarray and generally failing. He goes on to say they live in the past. They have this idea of the empire, their arguments usually refer to the past and they are idealogical rather than practical. He believes they are generally stupid, immature and have a total disregard for speaking the truth, so as you can imagine they are very unhelpful when the rest of the party wants to see some results.
Now in my view a lot of people could say this, but coming from Max Hastings I think one has to take it seriously. He's been around the block a few times, knows politics inside out and is a smart man, plus you could not accuse him of being pro-Labour or anything like that. I've come to the same conclusion myself about living in the past, although I would say it is far more widespread than just this group. It often goes hand in hand with a military background. All that marching eh? Traditions that have been passed down for hundreds of years. Max thinks we aught to get modern.
By the way, since that deal was struck about 2-3 weeks ago Starmer's rating has dropped 7 points.
BvL, I've listened to Hastings talk about Boris a few times over the years and there is one glaring fact that the casual and indeed impartial observer would say stands out like a pork chop at a Bar Mitzvah: Hastings does not like Boris. Ever since Boris's days as a Telegraph hack in Brussels Hastings has not liked him, Hastings has never liked him and this is not a secret. So please don't think you have found a ground breaking link, this is not breaking news. The only people who ever ask Hastings about Boris, are people who want to hear bad news about Boris. OK fair point, but I think his ammunition here is real. These Duncan-Smith types are totally arrogant fucks, and he wants to know what the hell they are doing in the Conservative Party, as a party I believe he has always identified with. I mean you don't get any more true blue than him. Indeed it is a bit like the church. The church was known throughout the land to be a place of absolute honesty and integrity, but lately it is being woked out and sinning. He sees the proper Tory party as a similar kind of institution - once pure and now corrupt. He is especially pissed off with the lying. He knows these people are capable of destroying the party for good. Others have said it too, but then there is Rishi. Strange bloke but I think he has integrity. Max is just saying, good Rishi, but he needs to wear the trousers, and not duck them. He's like the opposite of Johnson in many ways. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 24, 2023 22:17:46 GMT
The Chinese government think they are living in the past. They call it the cold war mentality.
This is not specifically about Johnson though. I think he broadly meant the ERG. I was wondering whether to use ERG or Right-Wing in the title, but they often refer to the same thing in the press or they say "the right of the party".
Farage is really one that fits squarely into this group, albeit he is not in the party, but part of the wider movement. This forum have many of the type and there were far more of them in the forums connected to UKIP. These so called Right-Wingers will typically know every battle fought in the WW2, have a history degree's worth of knowledge about the Nazis and all of that.
Now for the future: 3D printed homes, artificial organs, quantum computers, trains that travel at the speed of sound...
The thing is the future is sophisticated, the past is simple. You look at some of the leaders in more developed countries. You see quite a few engineers. Engineering is a dirty word though in Oxford. That place is a museum. It's brainwashing the students. Most civil servants come from Oxford, and many MPs.
Well that’s rich coming from the Chinese who hold a grudge against the west from the Opium wars . Yes I realise that you meant broadly the ERG but the ERG want a Singapore on Thames not a recolonisation of India. If being proud of your history is right wing then the Chinese must be the most right wing country in Earth . I see where you are going though . I think the likes of Mogg and Johnson see the ordinary person as an oik . I worry about that expression "Singapore on Thames". To me it has a double meaning. You see Singapore is one of the most illiberal places of anywhere I could imagine over there in the East.
The government want to go the CPTPP route, but the original idea there was to set up an organisation of countries in the East aligned to the US and to exclude China, which was for military/economic aims but then the US withdrew. It was senseless to really exclude the largest economy in the East if it were purely commercial.
Anyway I was not really thinking so much about specific policy as in just how these people use 18th century solutions to 21st century life. Science has revealed so much that we were ignorant about when these buildings were built. Hows about we have our shopping delivered by drones? Other countries do it, but the Westminster people won't hand licences out. We could do that now if we had a 21st century government. It would save billions.
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Post by Bentley on Mar 25, 2023 9:35:28 GMT
Well that’s rich coming from the Chinese who hold a grudge against the west from the Opium wars . Yes I realise that you meant broadly the ERG but the ERG want a Singapore on Thames not a recolonisation of India. If being proud of your history is right wing then the Chinese must be the most right wing country in Earth . I see where you are going though . I think the likes of Mogg and Johnson see the ordinary person as an oik . I worry about that expression "Singapore on Thames". To me it has a double meaning. You see Singapore is one of the most illiberal places of anywhere I could imagine over there in the East.
The government want to go the CPTPP route, but the original idea there was to set up an organisation of countries in the East aligned to the US and to exclude China, which was for military/economic aims but then the US withdrew. It was senseless to really exclude the largest economy in the East if it were purely commercial.
Anyway I was not really thinking so much about specific policy as in just how these people use 18th century solutions to 21st century life. Science has revealed so much that we were ignorant about when these buildings were built. Hows about we have our shopping delivered by drones? Other countries do it, but the Westminster people won't hand licences out. We could do that now if we had a 21st century government. It would save billions.
No need to overthink it WIKI…Singapore-on-Thames",[1][2] sometimes "Singapore-upon-Thames", was a hypothetical new model for the British economy after Brexit. Under it, the United Kingdom would greatly diverge from its neighbours in the European Union (EU), offering businesses low tax rates and a much lighter regulatory climate as an alternative, much like Singapore does within its region of Asia. The term arose in the media as a characterisation of remarks made by Chancellor of the Exchequer Philip Hammond to a German newspaper in early 2017,[3] to the effect that if the EU refused access to its single market on terms favourable to the UK then the UK would necessarily have to change its economic system to one less like EU countries in order to remain globally competitive, an outcome he did not want. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 25, 2023 12:34:45 GMT
I worry about that expression "Singapore on Thames". To me it has a double meaning. You see Singapore is one of the most illiberal places of anywhere I could imagine over there in the East.
The government want to go the CPTPP route, but the original idea there was to set up an organisation of countries in the East aligned to the US and to exclude China, which was for military/economic aims but then the US withdrew. It was senseless to really exclude the largest economy in the East if it were purely commercial.
Anyway I was not really thinking so much about specific policy as in just how these people use 18th century solutions to 21st century life. Science has revealed so much that we were ignorant about when these buildings were built. Hows about we have our shopping delivered by drones? Other countries do it, but the Westminster people won't hand licences out. We could do that now if we had a 21st century government. It would save billions.
No need to overthink it WIKI…Singapore-on-Thames",[1][2] sometimes "Singapore-upon-Thames", was a hypothetical new model for the British economy after Brexit. Under it, the United Kingdom would greatly diverge from its neighbours in the European Union (EU), offering businesses low tax rates and a much lighter regulatory climate as an alternative, much like Singapore does within its region of Asia. The term arose in the media as a characterisation of remarks made by Chancellor of the Exchequer Philip Hammond to a German newspaper in early 2017,[3] to the effect that if the EU refused access to its single market on terms favourable to the UK then the UK would necessarily have to change its economic system to one less like EU countries in order to remain globally competitive, an outcome he did not want. What they say vs what they do eh? They say lighter regs but after he said that the UK bans Huawei causing about 20 billion loss to the tax payer and shit internet connection speeds. Huawei had the most sophisticated and cheapest internet gear on the market, half the price of Western competitors. So Singapore upon Thames just means Liars upon Thames, i.e. no change, same old 18th century shit. |
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Post by piglet on Mar 25, 2023 13:52:27 GMT
Tory values dont age. Saying proper Tories are living in the past is akin to telling Tories who uphold tory values to become more left wing. Fat chance in my case. The current tory party is a disgrace. Holding fast against liberalism is unknown. To uphold proper tory values is to win the next election, not lose it.
This is what GB news is all about, the last flame of sanity.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 25, 2023 20:02:28 GMT
Tory values dont age. Saying proper Tories are living in the past is akin to telling Tories who uphold tory values to become more left wing. Fat chance in my case. The current tory party is a disgrace. Holding fast against liberalism is unknown. To uphold proper tory values is to win the next election, not lose it. This is what GB news is all about, the last flame of sanity. Yes I've been watching GB News on and off and the editorial seems to be aimed at what I would call proper Tories. The thing is in some ways they do change with the times. The original Tories were country dwellers who owned a lot of land and would make their money renting it to the serfs. The towns people were classical liberals who were into industry and in my mind generated real wealth, as per stuff you could buy in the shops. In those days Labour never even existed. Problems with Labour started when we let Karl Marx into the country. He in turn was influenced by British anarchists. The classical liberals fell out of fashion and then evolved into fake liberals, which are today's woke.
The Tories have got to figure out what they wan to be, because this far right stuff is all about smashing stuff up, like anarchists do. What I'm saying, which is probably what Max would agree with is Tories now should stop ripping the serfs off with usury and become industrious, the opposite of what anarchists do. A lot of economics is like fake wealth. They give with one hand and take with another. |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 25, 2023 20:30:04 GMT
No need to overthink it WIKI…Singapore-on-Thames",[1][2] sometimes "Singapore-upon-Thames", was a hypothetical new model for the British economy after Brexit. Under it, the United Kingdom would greatly diverge from its neighbours in the European Union (EU), offering businesses low tax rates and a much lighter regulatory climate as an alternative, much like Singapore does within its region of Asia. The term arose in the media as a characterisation of remarks made by Chancellor of the Exchequer Philip Hammond to a German newspaper in early 2017,[3] to the effect that if the EU refused access to its single market on terms favourable to the UK then the UK would necessarily have to change its economic system to one less like EU countries in order to remain globally competitive, an outcome he did not want. What they say vs what they do eh? They say lighter regs but after he said that the UK bans Huawei causing about 20 billion loss to the tax payer and shit internet connection speeds. Huawei had the most sophisticated and cheapest internet gear on the market, half the price of Western competitors. So Singapore upon Thames just means Liars upon Thames, i.e. no change, same old 18th century shit. Off on a tangent we go……. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 25, 2023 20:41:30 GMT
What they say vs what they do eh? They say lighter regs but after he said that the UK bans Huawei causing about 20 billion loss to the tax payer and shit internet connection speeds. Huawei had the most sophisticated and cheapest internet gear on the market, half the price of Western competitors. So Singapore upon Thames just means Liars upon Thames, i.e. no change, same old 18th century shit. Off on a tangent we go……. Sanctions are really bad for business. In time the US sanctions will destroy the US economy. What we need to do is practice free trade, because if we do then other countries will trust us, buy our products and generally be friends. Meanwhile Duncan-Smith the other day was out on the streets with some anarchist protestors insulting China. That man is toxic. As Max said, these people have to go. Rishi needs to pull the party back to sensible business policies. There is some evidence this is what he is intending to do. |
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