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Post by Einhorn on Mar 18, 2023 16:34:51 GMT
The French claim they are attracted by the black economy. And Pacifico has argued recently that more applications are accepted in the UK than elsewhere, thus making the UK more attractive. Here’s a question: X dumps all his rubbish in his back garden. After some time, the rubbish begins to attract rats. X notices that the rats are crossing his neighbour’s land to get to the rubbish in his garden. X sues his neighbour for not preventing the rats from crossing his garden. The neighbour countersues X, saying that X's backyard rubbish dump is drawing rats across his land, creating a nuisance for him. Who will win in a UK court? The above is how the French see it. And they have a point. And no, I'm not suggesting these people are rats. As you say it's how some French like to portray it, because they're lying rather than take any blame themselves. Yyou haven't answered the question, either. Maybe you don't think analogies are appropriate either. Or maybe you just see the flaw in your position.And you haven't answered the question, either. Maybe, like Benny, you don't think analogies are valid. The French are portraying themselves as being in exactly the same position as 'the neighbour' in the hypothetical. They say that the UK is drawing these people into their country. What's more you have conceded that the UK has a massive black economy to attract these people. And I note that you only insist on the black letter of the rules when it suits you. People should stick strictly to the rules here, you say. The government should stick strictly to the NI Protocol, you say. But it's fine to turn a blind eye to breaches of international law when you say. |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 18, 2023 16:39:11 GMT
But Orwell used the generally perceived traits of the animals used to illustrate motivations of the types of humanised characters he was portraying.
Interestingly, Eric Blair (Orwell) also worked for the BBC, and in addition to his occupation as a novelist and essayist, he's noted for his opposition to totalitarianism and support of democratic socialism.
Please be aware that I am not attempting to compare the postings of either you or Lineker in any way with the writings of Orwell...
I tried to be clear in my post that I don't see these, or any human beings, as rats. I used rats for the purpose of an analogy. Rats are perceived as pests, so they were perfect for this purpose. Just out of curiosity, who do you think should win the court case? Please don't consider any possible analogy with the refugee issue, if you choose to answer. By humans but by predators they are perceived as food. Within their own kind they have a better social structure than humans and they'll all vote for Reform UK. |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 18, 2023 16:45:07 GMT
You can be out into prison without being convicted. You can't be labelled a criminal without having your asylum claim processed. This is why Cruella's bill is against international law and will fail. It was never intended to succeed though, it's just an electioneering dog whistle to appeal to the xenophobes and draw their votes away from the likes of UKIP. UKIP aren't a threat. |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 18, 2023 16:46:20 GMT
I've no idea what you're trying to say, Benny. I notice you're still shying away from answering my question. Ah, so you was confused then. I notice that you keep asking the same question whether I answer it or not . He's nothing if not repetitious. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Mar 18, 2023 16:46:49 GMT
You can't be labelled a criminal without having your asylum claim processed. This is why Cruella's bill is against international law and will fail. It was never intended to succeed though, it's just an electioneering dog whistle to appeal to the xenophobes and draw their votes away from the likes of UKIP. UKIP aren't a threat. The Tories need every vote they can get. |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 18, 2023 16:48:21 GMT
The Tories need every vote they can get. They all do. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Mar 18, 2023 16:49:24 GMT
Ah, so you was confused then. I notice that you keep asking the same question whether I answer it or not . He's nothing if not repetitious. It's a great question. It's no wonder nobody wants to answer it. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2023 16:49:42 GMT
A see you have not actually answered the question, is it worth it? It is not actually a serious crime to enter a country by an 'illegal' method when you consider what some of these people have to put up with.. But lets consider how she may have ended up getting on one of the boats. Lets say she was pregnant, with twins, and the father of the twins raped and beat her because she did not wear a head covering, her friends helped her recover and arranged for her travel to the UK by boat to which she was not aware of the 'illegal' action she was taking, after all she was terrified and wanted to escape, she had no documents as the 'father' of her future children destroyed then so she could not leave. Is the 49 worth it? If she is the victim of crime in France, she should go to the French authorities. All you are doing is indirectly circling back on the claim that people have a legitimate reason to seek asylum from France in the Uk - they don't. She was not the victim of crime in France but rather the country of her birth. These people are not seeking asylum from France but rather their own country. Having said that do you think it was worth it? |
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Post by Montegriffo on Mar 18, 2023 16:50:19 GMT
The Tories need every vote they can get. They all do. Not with the lead Labour has. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2023 16:50:38 GMT
...and remnained but didn't claim asylum. Different thing, If they do not claim asylum they should be deported. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2023 16:52:33 GMT
A see you have not actually answered the question, is it worth it? It is not actually a serious crime to enter a country by an 'illegal' method when you consider what some of these people have to put up with.. But lets consider how she may have ended up getting on one of the boats. Lets say she was pregnant, with twins, and the father of the twins raped and beat her because she did not wear a head covering, her friends helped her recover and arranged for her travel to the UK by boat to which she was not aware of the 'illegal' action she was taking, after all she was terrified and wanted to escape, she had no documents as the 'father' of her future children destroyed then so she could not leave. Is the 49 worth it? If she is the victim of crime in France, she should go to the French authorities. All you are doing is indirectly circling back on the claim that people have a legitimate reason to seek asylum from France in the Uk - they don't. The left are obtuse and need it explained to them several times. |
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Post by sandypine on Mar 18, 2023 16:52:57 GMT
Since we are having a fantasy discussion lets inject a little seriousness. Lets say a boat arrives on our shores with 50 'asylum seekers' on board and that 49 of them are wishing to do us harm, as some on here seem to believe, but one is a real refugee, lets make it a woman and they, under this new law, are returned to their country of origin without processing and a few weeks later we discover that on arrival in her home country she was arrested, detained, starved, raped and beaten to death, would people on this site say it was worth it to get rid of the other 49? Honest answer only please. She took a chance on leaving a safe country, France, to better her situation as opposed to seeking asylum there. This is the type of thing that happens like asylum seekers knifing students in the back. What you want is to put many in the UK at risk, and we know they are at risk as history shows us, so as to protect one person. It is a balance and currently the balance is skewed against the British Public's safety, skewing it the other way will have a cost to those arriving, but there will always be a cost. Once it is skewed our way then the situation can be controlled currently it is in ridiculous mode and has been for well over a year. |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 18, 2023 16:53:08 GMT
He's nothing if not repetitious. It's a great question. It's no wonder nobody wants to answer it. He's not asking everyone. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Mar 18, 2023 16:53:49 GMT
...and remnained but didn't claim asylum. Different thing, If they do not claim asylum they should be deported. Arresting them on the beach is one sure way of ensuring they all claim asylum. Cruella has shot herself in the foot again. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Mar 18, 2023 16:54:56 GMT
It's a great question. It's no wonder nobody wants to answer it. He's not asking everyone. You are, of course, free to answer it if you can. |
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