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Post by steppenwolf on Mar 8, 2023 14:16:27 GMT
I understand the need as stated in the OP to separate out the arguments over EVs from overall power needs However Every mile driven requires about 250-300kwH Multiply that by the number of cars on the road and the number of miles they drive If we banned EVs look how much electricity infrastructure we would avoid needing. Anyone who has ever seen the explosion in the substation that happens when the vietnamese skunk growers in the houses up your road turn on all the lamps knows exactly where i’m going with this. The Cult of Thunberg has royally screwed you Divide by about 100. A Mini does about 3.5 miles per kWh - most larger BEVs do about 2.5 to 3 miles. It still makes them more expensive to run than a petrol car though.  |
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Post by Red Rackham on Mar 8, 2023 14:30:59 GMT
The point as ever is we cannot, barring some real wonderful fusion invention. You refer to needs and it is the needs that are the crucial aspect because that is what you are expecting to meet without fossil fuels and if we cannot meet our needs currently then increasing those needs will not work. That sounds like the bleedin obvious to me. So the 'needs' must be reduced in order to meet them without fossil fuels and that means you me and many others will have our energy 'needs' severely restricted in law. The technology is in place to do that and it will happen shortly, well before 2030. Only 20 years ago green energy accounted for 3% of our electricity, last year it accounted for 57%. Why do you say it can't be done? Are we running out of places to build wind farms? Yesterdays headline in the Telegraph: Emergency coal plants fired up as cold snap raises risk of blackouts tonight.www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/03/07/emergency-coal-plants-fired-cold-snap-raises-risk-blackouts/ZG, renewables are unreliable. If the wind don't blow, wind turbines don't generate. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Mar 8, 2023 14:31:35 GMT
"You cannot build an energy system if nobody makes a return in doing so” Historically, this has usually been the case because, If you are adding utility, then the only question becomes 'does the added utility warrant the expense?' However, these 'modern' changes involve significant reductions in utility. Few people will pay much for you to handicapped and hobble them Ever since civilisation took over from hunter gathering, humans have accepted restrictions on their freedoms for the greater good. You don't want laws removed that you agree with, just ones you don't. In this case the majority agree that we must stop or slow global warming and folks will accept a certain amount of change to do so. As for. "You cannot build an energy system if nobody makes a return in doing so” We did it when we banned coal fires from Cities and Towns, we did it again when we stopped using coal for energy because of its terrible pollution. We will do it again with electric cars and renewable energy. We already are. 57% of UK energy produced by green energy in 2022. And the price held high because of FOSSIL FUEL prices not Renewables. No it's not. If the fossil fuel manufacturers were charging too much the energy providers wouldn't buy their fuels. The fact is that they have to buy fossil fuels because a) there isn't enough renewable energy and b) it's not reliable. And what makes renewable energy so expensive is that it all has to be backed up by an alternative source for when the Sun isn't shining or the wind isn't blowing. Providing a full time back up is very expensive. And BEVs are a complete dead end for the simple reason that they don't cut CO2 emissions - unless we manage to get to net zero, which is impossible. They're also environmentally damaging. |
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Post by sandypine on Mar 8, 2023 18:49:29 GMT
The point as ever is we cannot, barring some real wonderful fusion invention. You refer to needs and it is the needs that are the crucial aspect because that is what you are expecting to meet without fossil fuels and if we cannot meet our needs currently then increasing those needs will not work. That sounds like the bleedin obvious to me. So the 'needs' must be reduced in order to meet them without fossil fuels and that means you me and many others will have our energy 'needs' severely restricted in law. The technology is in place to do that and it will happen shortly, well before 2030. Only 20 years ago green energy accounted for 3% of our electricity, last year it accounted for 57%. Why do you say it can't be done? Are we running out of places to build wind farms? 57% is 43% short of doing without fossil fuels. The trick is to make it meet our needs for the whole time we need it. That seems a forlorn hope as sometimes when the wind does not blow and the sun does not shine we need quite lot of energy and storage is unable to meet the demand |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 8, 2023 19:01:59 GMT
This is a very interesting read. www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2022/jan/opinion-renewables-are-cheaper-ever-so-why-are-household-energy-bills-only-going#:~:text=The%20last%20fixed%2Dprice%20government,set%20to%20face%20in%202022. ..What would electricity markets appropriate for renewable energy look like? In research I led with colleagues on electricity prices, we proposed a green power pool which would aggregate long-term contracts with renewable energy generators and sell the power on to consumers. The price would mainly be set by the actual investment costs of generators, rather than gas-driven wholesale markets. When there isn’t enough renewable power being generated or stored – like on cold and calm winter days – the green power pool would buy electricity from the wholesale market for limited periods and quantities. To minimise those costs (and emissions), contracts could give discounts to customers who can use electricity outside of peak times, or those with two-way electric vehicle connections who can sell power back to the grid. Well this is the answer I eventually got from my green electricity supplier: Thank you for your email and apologies for the delay we are dealing with a a large influx of emails.
I can confirm the reason is due to wholesale sale fuel prices more than doubling in the last year.
As a result we have had no choice but to put our prices up to the extent that we have.
Kind RegardsThe above was written in November 2021 following my question in the August. The Tory MP for Somerset West asked Liz Truss the very same question as I had and her response was that she would be dealing with the matter in a speech the following day yet on the following day she never mentioned it so I wrote to the MP who said he had a large number of letters to deal with. On at least three occasions I had to remind him I hadn't had an answer and it was an excuse every time, on one occasion that the Queen had died. eventually I got an email from his secretary telling me I should address the question to my MP. Well my MP, also a Tory, is hopeless, apart from which I never understood why or how addressing him would serve nay purpose since he would only have to ask the MP I had originally asked. It's bunkum and there are those who might say a Labour MP would have dealt with it differently and my answer to that is no they wouldn't. They are all a bunch of shysters, all playing silly games and all knowing the the majority of people will turn out to vote for a mainstream party; they're playing you for idiots and may have got it right. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 8, 2023 20:28:01 GMT
I didn't intend to separate out the need to supply enough power for EV's. I wanted a separate thread to the stuff about recharging points and battery life etc. I agree we will need more generation as EV usage grows, of course we will need less oil and all that infrastructure. No more fuel tankers (1500 of them I think) constantly carrying petrol to those service stations. And once again we come up against why we are doing this and unless you believe AGW is happening then it must seem pointless. But it is not happening is it? I see the usual karens are harping on about having snow and a few poxy degrees below freezing which is a total croc. They gave out snow last night for this neck of the woods it was 7 degrees C and pissed down with rain most of the night and is still raining now in some areas of the SW. Its not the weather its climate change. What we see is constant records broken and evermore frequent events. If you haven't noticed then tough, its you that's left behind. I hope someday you'll catch up. |
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Post by jonksy on Mar 8, 2023 20:31:04 GMT
But it is not happening is it? I see the usual karens are harping on about having snow and a few poxy degrees below freezing which is a total croc. They gave out snow last night for this neck of the woods it was 7 degrees C and pissed down with rain most of the night and is still raining now in some areas of the SW. Its not the weather its climate change. What we see is constant records broken and evermore frequent events. If you haven't noticed then tough, its you that's left behind. I hope someday you'll catch up. What climate change? The changes according to the snotty nosed little non entity like bumburgh would it be by any chance? |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 8, 2023 20:35:42 GMT
I understand the need as stated in the OP to separate out the arguments over EVs from overall power needs However Every mile driven requires about 250-300kwH Multiply that by the number of cars on the road and the number of miles they drive If we banned EVs look how much electricity infrastructure we would avoid needing. Anyone who has ever seen the explosion in the substation that happens when the vietnamese skunk growers in the houses up your road turn on all the lamps knows exactly where i’m going with this. The Cult of Thunberg has royally screwed you Divide by about 100. A Mini does about 3.5 miles per kWh - most larger BEVs do about 2.5 to 3 miles. It still makes them more expensive to run than a petrol car though. EV's equivalent to about £2.50 a gallon. 6p a mile. Where do you buy your petrol at less than that. Petrol works out about 19p a mile. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 8, 2023 20:39:00 GMT
Where as gas totally reliable. Unless someone blows up the pipeline or some dictator turns the tap off. That's why the emergency coal power stations are getting ready. But we're not there yet with renewables and no one is saying we are. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 8, 2023 20:41:52 GMT
Ever since civilisation took over from hunter gathering, humans have accepted restrictions on their freedoms for the greater good. You don't want laws removed that you agree with, just ones you don't. In this case the majority agree that we must stop or slow global warming and folks will accept a certain amount of change to do so. As for. "You cannot build an energy system if nobody makes a return in doing so” We did it when we banned coal fires from Cities and Towns, we did it again when we stopped using coal for energy because of its terrible pollution. We will do it again with electric cars and renewable energy. We already are. 57% of UK energy produced by green energy in 2022. And the price held high because of FOSSIL FUEL prices not Renewables. No it's not. If the fossil fuel manufacturers were charging too much the energy providers wouldn't buy their fuels. The fact is that they have to buy fossil fuels because a) there isn't enough renewable energy and b) it's not reliable. And what makes renewable energy so expensive is that it all has to be backed up by an alternative source for when the Sun isn't shining or the wind isn't blowing. Providing a full time back up is very expensive. And BEVs are a complete dead end for the simple reason that they don't cut CO2 emissions - unless we manage to get to net zero, which is impossible. They're also environmentally damaging. No, our energy prices are based on whichever one is most expensive and that's gas by a country mile at the moment. And again renewable is not finished. We're not there yet |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 8, 2023 20:43:47 GMT
Its not the weather its climate change. What we see is constant records broken and evermore frequent events. If you haven't noticed then tough, its you that's left behind. I hope someday you'll catch up. What climate change? The changes according to the snotty nosed little non entity like bumburgh would it be by any chance? According to every scientific institute studying meteorology across the globe. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 8, 2023 21:02:21 GMT
Only 20 years ago green energy accounted for 3% of our electricity, last year it accounted for 57%. Why do you say it can't be done? Are we running out of places to build wind farms? 57% is 43% short of doing without fossil fuels. The trick is to make it meet our needs for the whole time we need it. That seems a forlorn hope as sometimes when the wind does not blow and the sun does not shine we need quite lot of energy and storage is unable to meet the demand Gosh your maths is stellar. But renewables are not finished yet they expand more every year. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Mar 8, 2023 21:27:15 GMT
Where as gas totally reliable. Unless someone blows up the pipeline or some dictator turns the tap off. That's why the emergency coal power stations are getting ready. But we're not there yet with renewables and no one is saying we are. We have billions of cubic metres of totally reliable shale gas in the ground in this country ZG, but thanks to left wing eco zealots it's a resource we are not exploiting. Instead, we import shale gas from the US. It's economics of the mad house. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 8, 2023 21:33:42 GMT
Where as gas totally reliable. Unless someone blows up the pipeline or some dictator turns the tap off. That's why the emergency coal power stations are getting ready. But we're not there yet with renewables and no one is saying we are. We have billions of cubic metres of totally reliable shale gas in the ground in this country ZG, but thanks to left wing eco zealots it's a resource we are not exploiting. Instead, we import shale gas from the US. It's economics of the mad house. The reason we don't want the billions of cubic meters of shale gas is global warming. Calling people stupid names doesn't change that. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Mar 8, 2023 21:44:08 GMT
We have billions of cubic metres of totally reliable shale gas in the ground in this country ZG, but thanks to left wing eco zealots it's a resource we are not exploiting. Instead, we import shale gas from the US. It's economics of the mad house. The reason we don't want the billions of cubic meters of shale gas is global warming. Calling people stupid names doesn't change that. ZG, three months ago Sunak signed a deal with Biden for the US to supply the UK with ten billion cubic metres of fracked shale gas. We have billions of cubic meters of shale gas in the ground in this country. This is economics of the mad house. |
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