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Post by zanygame on Mar 12, 2023 20:46:39 GMT
I think you missed my subsequent post. Land = 4% of total investment (Wiltshire).
You don't want flexible ones for this job. they are 50p/W so about 3x the price and lower life expectancy. The cheap ones are about 20kg each, so you can see for a servo system and a frame you are not talking cheap. Yes you can lay them on the ground, indeed its advantageous because the ground could work as a heatsink. It's been done on a commercial scale in China where panels stretch for about as far as the eye can see. This is Chinese thinking. Don't spend more than you need to. Only an idiot would do that. You would probably do well to peg them into the ground in case of high winds, but simple stuff.
Regarding alignment it varies in angle of rotation and tilt. The single axis ones I've seen were tilt only, using a mechanism that did a bank at a time.
I think your valuation on land use is low, but I still think your idea is a winner. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 12, 2023 21:02:48 GMT
I think you missed my subsequent post. Land = 4% of total investment (Wiltshire).
You don't want flexible ones for this job. they are 50p/W so about 3x the price and lower life expectancy. The cheap ones are about 20kg each, so you can see for a servo system and a frame you are not talking cheap. Yes you can lay them on the ground, indeed its advantageous because the ground could work as a heatsink. It's been done on a commercial scale in China where panels stretch for about as far as the eye can see. This is Chinese thinking. Don't spend more than you need to. Only an idiot would do that. You would probably do well to peg them into the ground in case of high winds, but simple stuff.
Regarding alignment it varies in angle of rotation and tilt. The single axis ones I've seen were tilt only, using a mechanism that did a bank at a time.
I think your valuation on land use is low, but I still think your idea is a winner. I used this link
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Post by zanygame on Mar 12, 2023 21:24:22 GMT
I think your valuation on land use is low, but I still think your idea is a winner. I used this link
So that's the land value, what about its earning potential if used for cropping? |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 12, 2023 22:02:21 GMT
So that's the land value, what about its earning potential if used for cropping? I don't know how much you make from farming it, but I don't think it is a lot. The most expensive land of all is building land. This is where you really would not want to put them. There is a fair economy of scale in this. It's much cheaper of you buy say a container's work (300) at a time. 300 is only 600m^2 and you get 4000m^2 in an acre.
By the way, the one in China was a combined hydroelectric power station and solar farm on the same power cable, and using their official cost and generation figures the payback on the investment was 18 months.
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Post by steppenwolf on Mar 13, 2023 7:23:39 GMT
Both untrue. There's plenty of evidence of warming occurring without rises in CO2 which definitively prove the theory wrong. You've been given many instances but you just ignore them. And there's more evidence that warming causes a rise in CO2 than the other way round. The causal link of CO2 and warming has NEVER been proved - all attempts to show it in the Earth's system have failed. That's like claiming your central heating doesn't necessarily warm homes because every now and then they get hotter because they catch fire. Very occasionally some other effect changes the earths temperature, but the reason the earth is its average temperature is sunlight hitting it and co2 trapping infrared heat. Do tell, how do ocean currents warm the surface? Where do they get their energy to do this. The theory that the Earth is warming because of CO2 is just a theory. You can assert that it's true all you like but the models based on this theory don't work and all experiments to show it working in the Earth's environment have failed. Also the ETCW shows that exactly similar can occur without CO2 increases. So the theory is WRONG. The only people who believe it are those who don't understand science. And you have yet to provide evidence for your other assertion that all scientists agree with the CO2 theory. Where is it? If you make claims you should provide evidence, but you have none for anything you say. As for the ocean currents we don't understand them yet. In fact we probably know less about the oceans than we do about Mars. We still can't predict when El Nino will occur. |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 13, 2023 7:52:27 GMT
That's like claiming your central heating doesn't necessarily warm homes because every now and then they get hotter because they catch fire. Very occasionally some other effect changes the earths temperature, but the reason the earth is its average temperature is sunlight hitting it and co2 trapping infrared heat. Do tell, how do ocean currents warm the surface? Where do they get their energy to do this. The theory that the Earth is warming because of CO2 is just a theory. You can assert that it's true all you like but the models based on this theory don't work and all experiments to show it working in the Earth's environment have failed. Also the ETCW shows that exactly similar can occur without CO2 increases. So the theory is WRONG. The only people who believe it are those who don't understand science. And you have yet to provide evidence for your other assertion that all scientists agree with the CO2 theory. Where is it? If you make claims you should provide evidence, but you have none for anything you say. As for the ocean currents we don't understand them yet. In fact we probably know less about the oceans than we do about Mars. We still can't predict when El Nino will occur. I think it's known that ocean currents work but it may not be easy to explain why they work in the way they do. We know they displace heat and cold and where it occurs but we don't know why the currents run in the way they do. Is it for instance water density as a result of temperature, is it gravity, does axis come into it or is it a combination of the various things that affect planet Earth. Proponents of climate change/global warming will often tell you ocean currents are taken into account along with other things like polar shift but I have serious doubts they have anything like CO2 as the answer, it's an easy route. |
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Post by Dubdrifter on Mar 13, 2023 9:16:37 GMT
This is not achievable by any means other than a worldwide fascist (authoritarian rather than democratic) state with control of all nuclear weapons. Dear Tony has it planned institute.globalSorry, a bit late to this thread discussion. Interesting you can Sign Up to Tony Blair’s interpretation - how to implement his vision of NATO World Domination …. but there’s no room at the bottom of his articles inviting FEEDBACK, a Counterview of the damage being done … and other POV. Best just sign up to this Forum … where you can at least Comment on proposals. I think it's become obvious that Net-Zero is part of this "non-lethal warfare" plot where malevolent countries persuade other countries to do stupid things that damage them economically or in other ways. It's far easier and cheaper than conventional warfare. So stupid countries, like the UK, voluntarily give up their energy security and rely on daft sources that plainly don't work. And when they find out that they don't work they have to import their energy (at high prices) from the countries that are conning them. Trump called it dead right years ago. He also called the origin of the Covid outbreak years ago. While the BBC was refusing give a platform to anyone who stated the obvious fact that Covid came from the Wuhan lab where they were experimenting on gain of function, Trump just told the truth - and got vilified for it. Spot on. We’re run by idiotic poodles that like to be ridden by bad elements in the EU + America holding Israeli passports. |
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Post by Dubdrifter on Mar 13, 2023 10:19:41 GMT
[When you realise that our nuclear power stations are being decommissioned (with no new ones due to arrive for years) and coal fire power stations shut down and oil production mothballed et cetera you get a rough idea of how far we've been conned. China of course has hedged its bets. It's building coal fired power stations at a great rate and has not signed up to net zero. It also hasn't made any commitment to net zero. Same with Russia. They're just looking on at our daft politicians shutting down our energy production and laughing. They can't believe how gullible we are. So true … Unlike Americans, the EU and UK Politicians on both sides of the Commons … the Chinese know what is economic, achievable, practical and sensible. …. and know how to achieve World Domination through economic persuasion. …we will get cheaper and more practical energy solutions and healthier economic improvements … by ditching our politicians, the Media, Globalist warmongers … voting them out (as if that makes any difference?) … rebuilding broken alliances with Russia and China. … We need to first switch Drax and other facilities back to coal where possible … open up UK fossil fuel energy reserves again … (muddled thinking, bad science stats shut them down) … then switch renewable energy generation science to focus almost 100% towards tidal/river hydro-electric and multi-turbine schemes. Greener to focus on cheap blade build with easy recycling and easy maintenance designs. Using recycled plastics … built in UK using factories of CAD 3D printers churning out turbine blades for world EXPORT markets. duckduckgo.com/?q=3D+plastic+printed+turbine+blade&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images …. Community level power generators. … in UK connected to the Grid. Might sound Heath Robinson … but cheap simple designs often have longterm marketable practicalities … look at the AK47?? … still a winner! |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 13, 2023 18:29:36 GMT
[When you realise that our nuclear power stations are being decommissioned (with no new ones due to arrive for years) and coal fire power stations shut down and oil production mothballed et cetera you get a rough idea of how far we've been conned. China of course has hedged its bets. It's building coal fired power stations at a great rate and has not signed up to net zero. It also hasn't made any commitment to net zero. Same with Russia. They're just looking on at our daft politicians shutting down our energy production and laughing. They can't believe how gullible we are. So true … Unlike Americans, the EU and UK Politicians on both sides of the Commons … the Chinese know what is economic, achievable, practical and sensible. …. and know how to achieve World Domination through economic persuasion. …we will get cheaper and more practical energy solutions and healthier economic improvements … by ditching our politicians, the Media, Globalist warmongers … voting them out (as if that makes any difference?) … rebuilding broken alliances with Russia and China. … We need to first switch Drax and other facilities back to coal where possible … open up UK fossil fuel energy reserves again … (muddled thinking, bad science stats shut them down) … then switch renewable energy generation science to focus almost 100% towards tidal/river hydro-electric and multi-turbine schemes. Greener to focus on cheap blade build with easy recycling and easy maintenance designs. Using recycled plastics … built in UK using factories of CAD 3D printers churning out turbine blades for world EXPORT markets. duckduckgo.com/?q=3D+plastic+printed+turbine+blade&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images …. Community level power generators. … in UK connected to the Grid. Might sound Heath Robinson … but cheap simple designs often have longterm marketable practicalities … look at the AK47? … still a winner! At the moment plastics are a product of fossil fuels, cancel the latter and you cancel the former or if you continue to produce plastics from fossil fuels what will you do with the other cracked products? |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 13, 2023 21:26:33 GMT
That's like claiming your central heating doesn't necessarily warm homes because every now and then they get hotter because they catch fire. Very occasionally some other effect changes the earths temperature, but the reason the earth is its average temperature is sunlight hitting it and co2 trapping infrared heat. Do tell, how do ocean currents warm the surface? Where do they get their energy to do this. The theory that the Earth is warming because of CO2 is just a theory. You can assert that it's true all you like but the models based on this theory don't work and all experiments to show it working in the Earth's environment have failed. Also the ETCW shows that exactly similar can occur without CO2 increases. So the theory is WRONG. The only people who believe it are those who don't understand science. And you have yet to provide evidence for your other assertion that all scientists agree with the CO2 theory. Where is it? If you make claims you should provide evidence, but you have none for anything you say. As for the ocean currents we don't understand them yet. In fact we probably know less about the oceans than we do about Mars. We still can't predict when El Nino will occur. So, how do the ocean currents warm the surface water? That was your claim. |
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Post by Dubdrifter on Mar 14, 2023 9:14:46 GMT
At the moment plastics are a product of fossil fuels, cancel the latter and you cancel the former or if you continue to produce plastics from fossil fuels what will you do with the other cracked products? Which other products are you referring to? The UK Gov. needs more initiatives to reduce plastic waste and more schemes to recycle the mountain produced by industries and consumers … rather than shredding it finely and dumping it out at sea to be ingested into food chains and create ‘species crash’ I thought it might be better to make cheaper turbine components out of recycled plastic waste which would be resistant to salt water corrosion. With regards issues like climate extremes … haven’t we seen it all before? … www.netweather.tv/weather-forecasts/uk/winter/famous-winters…. No point knee-jerking a response to a period of cold snaps or heatwaves … Deforestation of the Third World shifts thermal currents to cause more extreme weather effects …than burning fossil fuels and running gas guzzlers ever did. Driving an EV/burning biofuels as wood chips … won’t reverse those thermal current distortions … because it doesn’t tackle the tree felling/desertification agenda Zany’s ‘green Globalists’ are pursuing. They tear up environmental protection measures … clear rainforests/destroy habitats, mine the heck out of the environment so SMUG middle class EV drivers can have their billions of batteries with a poor shelf life …. They support Al Gore’s knee jerk solutions … while he profits growing sugar cane in the dead Amazon region => to make biofuels … The (in)Zany Posse turn once diverse forest habitats into just wood-chip supply farms for Drax burners that create more emissions per btu unit generated than coal and gas ever did …. They replace diverse rainforests with coconut tree plantations so Richard Branson can run his jets on coconut oil instead of fossil fuels. Good luck any orangutang cracking that food source! They think they will tackle global warming by covering the world surface in solar panels that generate so much heat to manufacture, are only 25% efficient when new out the box … and only last < 20 years. They use up precious agricultural land in the West … a whole fields worth will barely run a toaster on a sunny day …. they get incredibly hot and reflect the sun to warm air thermals … to a small degree they could push warm air over Siberia and Scandinavia … toasting polar bears and melting ice caps. Think about that possibility. SHAM GREEN POLICIES 99% of the time GENERATE ….. NET ZERO EFFECT on the Planet. … and are just designed to defund the gullible WEST to boost Globalist profits. (that 1% - Banning CFC’s might have helped the ozone hole issue - a bit) BTW …Tectonic plate shift … creates 99% land rise and fall … this isn’t the sea level rising. BTW … The iron flux in the Earth’s core causes a periodic shift in polarity which causes climate change. BTW … The Yellowstone Caldera is long overdue for another cataclysmic eruption soon … more global warming … no point driving an EV in America … your net emissions contribution will soon be offset. BTW …. Total ice cap melt has resulted in very little sea level rise. BTW …. Temp rises in air and sea water are more likely due to increased volcanic activity than localised human effects generating heat eg. hot water running into the sea from power stations.… (not that we shouldn’t address and reduce these things within our economic means). BTW …. Building on river flood plains and marshy ground near the sea (eg. Venice) … then expressing shock horror when the weather, hurricanes, floods, cliff erosion and sinkage periodically destroys houses and drowns people out …. isn’t the fault of fossil fuel burning car-owners with gas central heating … eh ..Zany? Driving electric won’t offset minute sea level rises from polar melt … or shift air thermals to stop weather extremes.When it comes to faking the stats of Global Warning … the Green Lobby should note … Bill Gates’ insane plan to geo-weather/yes, chemspray the upper atmosphere and block the SUNLIGHT from warming Earth … isn’t a Conspiracy Theory … it’s a FACT … Yes, dumbass Deep State controllers and their MSM are trying to duped climate idiots who can’t figure out the basics that blocking sunlight/suppressing/destroying foliage growth will NOT reduce global warming and reduce Earth CO2 …. the opposite will happen … Gates’ policies will destroy life here … not save it. …. Yet his nutter ideas are promoted all over a Media that has lost the plot on rational thinking. It’s basic logic to realise: Every fresh volcanic eruption wipes out the global warming benefits of driving EV’s within <½ hr. 🤣🤩 … crunch the btu’s … it’s true!Mars had a rather drastic polar melt shrinkage recently … cyclic phenomena happens everywhere. Greta-clones need to stop moaning about Climate Change …. Stop walking around with faces like slapped arses …. STOP lecturing and bullying us to destroy our economies making v.bad fake Green choices…..and just learn how to Dance in the Rain … 🤗 |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 14, 2023 18:06:14 GMT
LOL - manufacturer states the obvious...  |
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Post by steppenwolf on Mar 15, 2023 7:11:28 GMT
They're another dead end like BEVs. They're both technology that's worse than what we've got, more expensive and doesn't solve any problems. Only a bunch of really stupid politicians could pick two technologies that are so completely useless and also riddled with completely intractable problems. I just wonder how much time and money will be wasted before the politicians actually realise this.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 15, 2023 7:41:07 GMT
LOL - manufacturer states the obvious... Not sure what it has to do with the age of the home (Can't get the telegraph article(Pay wall) But I do know the ground source heat pumps the government are backing with grants need a very large amount of ground for their pipe work. Something only the rich tend to have. (Surprise surprise) I asked my MP to look into this and offer grants on Air source heat pumps as well, but no dice. I fitted air source heat pumps to my home and they work very well and the running cost is similar to the old boiler we replaced. I have been pushing to have them make through wall units that do not need professional registered installers (For the high pressure pipes) These unit are all in one (Pipes inside them) And can be installed by a competent DIY'er or a general builder. FYI. The units are about £500 each and you need roughly 3 or 4 for a normal home. But the installation costs are £1,000 to £1,500 a unit. So an easier to install unit would make them a very cheap alternative to a gas boiler. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 15, 2023 7:53:04 GMT
Through the wall heat pumps are OK (not sure about the running costs - suspect the same as a fan heater) but they have the same basic problems as fan heaters - noisy in use and no residual heat.
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