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Post by Bentley on Mar 5, 2023 11:08:27 GMT
Now there's a fact. Mellow Lane school in Hayes, Middlesex, had an enviable record of GCE passes but that was when it was a secondary modern in the early fifties. Proving my point that too many capable youngsters were denied the advantages of a grammar school education. So your problem with grammar schools is that there was not enough of them and your solution to it was to get rid of them ? Have you ever thought that might be a bit contradictory? |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 5, 2023 11:30:26 GMT
2. I assume you are being deliberately dense. I never said that Grammar schools prevent anyone from obtaining 'exam certificates'. I made the point that those successful at a comprehensive school could have benefitted from a grammar school education if grammar school places had been available. so the answer to that is to scrap Grammar Schools and bring everyone down to the level of Comprehensive School?.. don't quite see what that does to improve education in the UK - although I suspect that was not the point and it was more to tick a box called 'Equality' |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 5, 2023 11:44:51 GMT
No - nothing to do with grammar school places simply a fact of biology. There are only a limited percentage of kids suitable for higher education As I said - it was an arbitrary target based on no scientific evidence - purely politicking. So Comps fail over half of their students.. 1. If you are insinuating that the limited number of Grammar school places were sufficient for the number of people able to benefit from a grammar school education then you have given yourself the ridiculous job of trying to prove such nonsense. 2. You make a silly stunted minded opinion and then try to rely on it as if you were talking sense. 3. Another asinine comment that ignores the obvious ^^^. A/ Comprehensive students are not selected through an exam. B/ despite the lack of benefits enjoyed by Grammar school students there are still many students capable of gaining certification. C/ Proving that if there were more Grammar school places there were many multiples of people capable of filling them. By default they are, insomuch that if you fail an 11-plus you go to a comprehensive. As for not enough grammar schools, ask yourself why Harold Wilson, a onetime grammar school boy, didn't reorganise the whole education system by making more grammar school places, splitting existing schools into two or where there was sufficient schools in an area, turning one into a grammar? |
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Post by andrewbrown on Mar 5, 2023 12:55:30 GMT
What about those of us who never sat an 11+? Are we to be looked down at or looked up to?
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Post by see2 on Mar 5, 2023 13:12:33 GMT
Proving my point that too many capable youngsters were denied the advantages of a grammar school education. So your problem with grammar schools is that there was not enough of them and your solution to it was to get rid of them Have you ever thought that might be a bit contradictory? No, my concern is that the 11+ system was flawed, which is why the Comprehensive system was introduced. One more added weakness of the 11+ is that it did not even recognise let alone compensate for the estimated 20% of people who are late developers. |
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Post by see2 on Mar 5, 2023 13:25:16 GMT
1. If you are insinuating that the limited number of Grammar school places were sufficient for the number of people able to benefit from a grammar school education then you have given yourself the ridiculous job of trying to prove such nonsense. 2. You make a silly stunted minded opinion and then try to rely on it as if you were talking sense. 3. Another asinine comment that ignores the obvious ^^^. A/ Comprehensive students are not selected through an exam. B/ despite the lack of benefits enjoyed by Grammar school students there are still many students capable of gaining certification. C/ Proving that if there were more Grammar school places there were many multiples of people capable of filling them. By default they are, insomuch that if you fail an 11-plus you go to a comprehensive. As for not enough grammar schools, ask yourself why Harold Wilson, a onetime grammar school boy, didn't reorganise the whole education system by masking more grammar school places, splitting existing schools into two or where there was sufficient schools in an area, turning one into a grammar? By default doesn't work in terms of my earlier post, which referred to the fact that there was no selective test for admission to a comprehensive school. IMO the reason for not going down the road of creating of more grammar schools is because the 11+ itself was flawed. A flexible system was deemed necessary hence the comprehensive system which offered a greater opportunity for more students. While not entirely removing a selective approach for those who chose to use it. |
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Post by jonksy on Mar 5, 2023 13:27:42 GMT
What about those of us who never sat an 11+ Are we to be looked down at or looked up to? Was the 11 plus still in use when you attended school? |
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Post by see2 on Mar 5, 2023 13:32:46 GMT
2. I assume you are being deliberately dense. I never said that Grammar schools prevent anyone from obtaining 'exam certificates'. I made the point that those successful at a comprehensive school could have benefitted from a grammar school education if grammar school places had been available. so the answer to that is to scrap Grammar Schools and bring everyone down to the level of Comprehensive School?.. don't quite see what that does to improve education in the UK - although I suspect that was not the point and it was more to tick a box called 'Equality' No the idea would be to continue to improve the comprehensive system. If approaching 50% of the also ran proved to be successful at comprehensives, why would those who were successful in grammar schools fail in a comprehensive school? |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 5, 2023 13:37:59 GMT
So your problem with grammar schools is that there was not enough of them and your solution to it was to get rid of them Have you ever thought that might be a bit contradictory? No, my concern is that the 11+ system was flawed, which is why the Comprehensive system was introduced. One more added weakness of the 11+ is that it did not even recognise let alone compensate for the estimated 20% of people who are late developers. 13+ …you have been told about this . |
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Post by sheepy on Mar 5, 2023 13:40:15 GMT
No, my concern is that the 11+ system was flawed, which is why the Comprehensive system was introduced. One more added weakness of the 11+ is that it did not even recognise let alone compensate for the estimated 20% of people who are late developers. 13+ …you have been told about this . Oh no the utopia that only exists in the mind is flawed, we really must do something about it. |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 5, 2023 14:32:19 GMT
What about those of us who never sat an 11+ Are we to be looked down at or looked up to? It depends on how tall you are.  |
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Post by andrewbrown on Mar 5, 2023 15:00:18 GMT
What about those of us who never sat an 11+ Are we to be looked down at or looked up to? Was the 11 plus still in use when you attended school? It still existed but not in the district I attended school. Probably because there were no grammar schools. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Mar 5, 2023 15:00:50 GMT
What about those of us who never sat an 11+ Are we to be looked down at or looked up to? It depends on how tall you are. 5 ft 4. I'm buggered! 😂 |
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Post by jonksy on Mar 5, 2023 15:06:48 GMT
Was the 11 plus still in use when you attended school? It still existed but not in the district I attended school. Probably because there were no grammar schools. So there ya go. Why do you think people would look down on you or visa versa? |
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Post by andrewbrown on Mar 5, 2023 15:08:39 GMT
Lol, have you read the posts on here? Class wars at large.
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